ARTICLE

A Linux Distribution for an Old Laptop
Contributed by D. Travis North in Desktop on 2006-05-19 11:16:31
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Distribution Tests and Review

The first thing I did was research several Linux distributions to find any potential candidates. The 'Comparison of Linux distributions' article at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org) became a surprisingly indispensable resource throughout this process. Most distributions are compared and described in full detail on the site. This information was, of course, cross-checked with each candidate's website. I also visited the 'Linux Distribution Chooser' website (http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/) which also helped me to determine which distributions to consider. Finally, asked friends and other Linux fans for recommendations.

I immediately eliminated many of the smaller, less popular distributions. Most were not as fine-tuned as I would have liked and did not have communities large enough to help me in case of need. I also eliminated any of the commercial 'boxed' distributions as I do not wish to spend any money for this project. The LiveCD distributions were not considered at all. While it may seem appealing to have an installation that doesn't impact my hard drive, these distributions often run much too slow for my laptop. I have narrowed down my search to a handful of distributions and I evauluated each with my Test Criteria in mind. I will briefly describe my research.

Fedora Core

Fedora is a free distribution based on one of the most widely known commercial Linux distributions: Red Hat. It took me several times to successfully download the distribution. I first tried the FTP site and ended up with a corrupt DVD version and a CD version (5 CDs) which also suffered corruption. Finally, I had some luck with BitTorrent. Unfortunately, my troubles did not end there.

For whatever reason, the graphical installation did not work on my laptop, so I was required to use the text-mode installation. Initially, I was not concerned about this fact, until it came for package selection time. For those of you who aren't familiar with Red Hat or Fedora, you are given an opportunity to select packages for installation. You can select packages by group or you can select them individually using an advanced user mode. The first time I tried to install the system, it was not apparent to me as to how I could select packages individually, so I selected the groups that I knew I'd need. Unfortunately, that resulted in an installation requiring much more hard drive space than I had available. I was not keeping track of this, however, as I expected the installation program to warn me if I were expected to run out of space. I got about half way through the installation before it informed me that I had run out of hard drive space. I was left with a non-working system, and I didn't even have a boot loader with which to access my windows partition. I was not happy.

So I tried it again. This time, I was able to find the little check box that allowed me to select packages individually. Generally, my method for this is to select the groups that I want, then to go through and deselect the packages I don't need. Once I got to a point where I thought I was done, I started to install packages. I got a few errors for dependencies, which were easily corrected. But then I was faced with a system that was again much too large for my laptop's poor hard drive. With some frustration and some profanity, I again tried to cut down the size of the installation, blatantly ignoring the warnings in some cases. I was able to get my installation down to 1.6 Gigabytes; larger than I would like, but still able to fit. Once again, I started the installation. This time I got about two-thirds of the way through the installation before it gave me a warning that I was, again, out of disk space. Again, I was not happy.

After spending several hours just to get this distribution installed, I decided that I had acquired enough information about Fedora to make my decision. At the very least, the installation program should have some sort of check for hard drive space. I also felt that the installation process was overwhelming for a distribution of this history and stature. Fedora will not be the distribution that ends up on my laptop. It may be a great distribution for more current hardware, but not at all appropriate for my needs.

Gentoo

I have been running Gentoo on my server for a couple of years now and, of all the distributions that I will test, it is the one I am most familiar with. Gentoo is a source based distribution. At it's core is an update program called portage. While some may feel intimidated by the Gentoo install process, it's really not that complicated and it's well documented. I believe that anyone with minimal experience in Linux would be able to install this distribution. The default installation, referred to as 'Stage 3', now starts you with a working base system that is pre-compiled. Using portage, I was able to easily recompile the entire system so that it was optimized for my laptop, though this did take a lot of time.

Gentoo makes no assumptions during installation. The installation instructions offer several different options when it comes to most of the major daemons and services. Of course, when Gentoo is installed, that's just the beginning. The installation instructions leave you with a fully functional system, shell and some essential services. Anything else that you may need must be installed using Portage. This is where some Linux experience comes in handy. Not only does one need to know what to install, but some applications may require some manual configuration, such as the Xfree86 windows environment. I was able to get everything installed that I needed without too much effort, including BlueFish which is available through portage.

The biggest advantage that I see with Gentoo is that Portage can be configured with a default set of compile-time options, called 'use flags' that are used for the compilation of every application. This feature is ideal for my situation as it allowed me to further optimize my system and save hard drive space. A flag like "-gnome" prevents any applications from compiling in Gnome support, which I don't need since I am running KDE in its place.. I also added a flag, "-doc", to prevent applications from adding space-eating documentation in formats that I don't need. You can add dozens of flags to the configuration file to allow you to tailor almost any aspect of your system. In many cases, certain flags even prevent certain dependencies from getting installed; definitely a bonus for those with a space handicap.

Configuration was not flawless and there were some troubles, as I expected there would be on this laptop. I had some difficulties getting my wireless network card running. Fortunately, I was able to reference the Gentoo networking handbook, the Gentoo Wiki (http://gentoo-wiki.com) and the Gentoo forums (http://forums.gentoo.org). Many of the users are very knowledgeable about Linux, and I was able to pinpoint the drivers I needed to get it working. It wasn't without a hassle, but at least I had some help. I was also concerned about the large file tree necessary for Portage to work. For that, I found some advice on the forums. One person suggested setting up the portage directory as a mount-point from a network drive. It's a perfect resolution to the problem, and if I settle on Gentoo, I will definitely consider setting that up. For now, I'm happy to know that it's an option.

For those who may have a slightly better computer than mine, there is also a fairly new method for installing Gentoo. The Gentoo LiveCD method of installation has both a text-mode query system and a GTK+ (graphical) system for installation. While these still require some Linux experience to fully understand the installation, they are, without a doubt, a much easier installation process than the common method. The LiveCD ran fine on my system, but when it came to the installation process itself, I just didn't have enough memory. The installation process requires 256 megabytes of RAM. If you have that, you may consider this as a valid option.

In summary, Gentoo is a very valid option. I liked it for the customization and the ability to have a small footprint. I am also quite impressed with the community that backs the distribution. On an 800 MHz laptop, however, compile times are very slow which makes for a very slow installation. From a blank partition through to a working KDE desktop with Mozilla Firefox, Bluefish and GIMP, a system-wide optimized compilation took a little more than 3 days. Regardless, this is an option that I will definitely consider for my final decision.

Kubuntu / Ubuntu

Ubuntu was recommended to me by a friend. So I did my research and discovered Kubuntu, which is a related distribution. The only difference, as near as I can tell, is that Kubuntu uses KDE instead of Gnome for it's Windows and Desktop Manager. So, I decided to give it a try.

My first major complaint is that there isn't a lot of online documentation that I was able to uncover. I understand that this distribution is much younger than other distributions that I have tested. However, certain things should always be available, and installation documentation is one of them. I was able to find some basic information, but very little highlighted the actual process of the installation. For that matter, I wasn't even able to find minimum requirements.

From a CD-ROM ISO that I downloaded from Kubuntu's site, I was able to get the installation started. The installation process is fairly simple. I was asked a couple question about hardware, time zone and partition setup. The installation program was not able to detect my network card which, again, didn't surprise me. This wasn't reason to give up yet. Installation continued installing the base system, and it even installed the Grub boot loader which automatically detected my Windows partition. The system was even able to reboot itself off of the new installation. But it wasn't long before I had problems.

After Kubuntu installs its base system, it reboots to install more packages such as the windows environment and presumably KDE. However, my installation died slightly beyond the halfway point for this crucial step. The error I was given didn't explain very much. I had my base system, but little else. Some careful investigation told me that my installation was much too large for my meager 2 gigabyte partition. Sadly, I could've saved some time for myself if I was able to find minimum requirements on Kubuntu's website.

Due to my situation, the only thing that I can definitely confirm about Kubuntu is that it is not ideal for my laptop. I believe that the poor documentation is inexcusable. I also believe that the installation should be more customizable. Overall, I wasn't happy with this attempt. Given better hardware and resources, Kubuntu does show some promise. If I ever get a larger hard drive or a better laptop, I will again revisit this distribution. But it will not make it onto this laptop.

OpenSUSE

OpenSUSE is a free version of Novell's enterprise editions of Linux. While it is officially sponsored by Novell, it comes with no support contract. Most support is through the community wiki or through the support database. But you can also use the corporate website (http://www.novell.com/linux/) to troubleshoot many other problems. And if all else fails, it follows the Linux Standard Base criteria, so you can get help from almost any Linux user. I downloaded version 10.0 using BitTorrent, which I highly recommend as the FTP site linked from the website is slow.

Installation was a breeze. Not only was YAST the best looking installation program, it was probably the simplest and most intuitive of all the distributions I tested. The default installation was 1.8 Gigabytes, which was a bit too large for my comfort. But I was able to get down to 1.2 gigabytes by removing packages that I know I wouldn't need from the installation. The other nice thing about the installation was that it allowed me to select which desktop I wanted to use: KDE or GNOME. Obviously, I picked KDE. But I wasn't able to avoid GNOME completely as a lot of the SUSE tools are based on some of GNOME's libraries. This did add some bulk to the installation, but nothing worth ranting long about. Unfortunately, BlueFish was not a selectable package as part of the installation. But it would be easy enough to install from source, and there are several packages available on the internet that would drop right into OpenSUSE.

One of the things that impressed me, at least initially, was that OpenSUSE successfully detected my wireless card. So I loaded up YAST to try to configure my wireless network, and I grew frustrated. In hind sight, I didn't have reason to get frustrated. The prism2 chipset for my wireless card depends on proprietary firmware which, for obvious reasons, cannot be released in an open source project. So I had to do some manual installation that was not much different than setup in any other Linux distribution. So my only valid complaint about the wireless in OpenSUSE is that it made me believe that I could use YAST to set everything up when, in fact, I couldn't. I researched, but was unable to discover if Novell's enterprise edition of SUSE was better at handling prism2 cards.

Once everything was installed, the system ran very smoothly. It's configuration and update tools are pretty easy to use and very in-depth. It had a definite identity through it's graphics and its overall setup scheme. As it had been nearly 8 years since I tried SUSE last, I was very happy to see that it was now using the Linux Standard Base, which was my reason for abandoning the distribution in the first place so many years ago. The community behind OpenSUSE, as near as I can tell, is not nearly as active as some of the other distributions I've tested (Gentoo, especially). But I am confident that I could find the answers I needed in a pinch. As a solution for my laptop, this distribution has definitely earned some serious consideration.

Vector Linux

Vector Linux is based on the Slackware Distribution (http://slackware.com). For those of you who don't know, Slackware is one of the oldest living Linux distributions. It has earned a reputation as one of the most stable distributions available. It has also earned a reputation as an advanced distribution requiring extensive comfort in the world of Linux. When I initially drafted this study, Slackware was definately going to be on my list. I was, however, not enthused to run through another Slackware installation. Even the online documentation is intimidating (this is one distribution that benefits from buying pre-configured CD-Rs). After some research, I discovered Vector Linux. Supposidly, it has the stability that Slackware has and it has a few new features that make it more user friendly to install and maintain. That was enough to sell me on the idea.

Vector Linux comes in three different configurations: The Standard Edition, the Deluxe Edition and the Small Office & Home Office Edition (SOHO). The Deluxe edition is only available for purchase through the Vector Linux website. I grabbed the SOHO edition as it came with KDE, OpenOffice (an open source replacement for Microsoft Office), and several other features that seemed worthwhile to me.

Installation was, for the most part, a breeze. It uses a text-based installation program that isn't pretty, but it's simple enough to use. It made some major improvements to the Slackware installation system which, in my opinion, asks too many questions and was too complicated for many people. Vector Linux, on the other hand, left out anything that wasn't necessary. I was happy to see that one of the first tasks of the install program was to check itself for possible corruption. I was disappointed to see that the default boot manager was LILO instead of GRUB which is my preferred boot manager.

I had only one major difficulty during installtion: LILO wouldn't install. The install script asked me a couple of questions to, presumably, set up the LILO configuration file. However, it returned a generic error stating that it was unable to install. So I skipped this step for now and continued with installation. Once installation was complete, I was able to reboot with the CD again to gain access to my new Linux installation. On the install menu, there is an option to reinstall LILO. I tried to do this, but it didn't work. Fortunately, another option allowed me to boot an already existing Linux partition. This allowed me to troubleshoot the LILO configuration file and I discovered several problems which shouldn't have existed. I fixed these, reinstalled LILO, and we were good to move along once again.

The installation program recognized and properly configured most of my hardware including my video card, monitor, mouse and keyboard. It even auto-detected sound which worked beautifully out of the box. It did not, however, detect my network card - though again I must point out that no distribution I tested allowed it to work out of the box.

Once I was up and running, I loaded up VASM, which is the Vector Linux system configuration program. It was very simple and easy to use and it exposed many overlooked areas of system configuration. There are a lot of system configuration elements that have not yet been addressed, but the most common configuration tasks are available. The package management system, VLAPT, seemed fairly intuitive and easy to use. It also flags security updates automatically. As far as package management software goes, it wasn't anything special...but it got the job done.

As an advanced Linux user, I found Vector Linux to be happy medium between the no-frills distributions like Slackware and the more user-friendly distributions like Red Hat or Lindows. At times, Vector can appear a bit rough around the edges. Visually, the distribution could benefit from a graphical installation or a more tailored boot frame buffer. There are also a few weak points in the installation such as the LILO configuration problem that I had, or another problem I had with the proc mounting improperly. For me, these problems were easy enough to fix. But for the purpose of my evaluation, they are definite strikes against Vector Linux. On the plus side, Vector had the absolute smallest footprint weighing in at only about 960 megabytes including everything I asked for. While I think this distribution is a possible option, it does lack many of the frills that I would've liked on my laptop.



Article Index
A Linux Distribution for an Old Laptop
Distribution Tests and Review
Overall Summary and Ratings
 
Discussion(s)
800 megahertz Celeron, 128MB ram
Written by reckless2k2 on 2006-05-19 13:59:22
I find it amazing that you were able to run Windows XP on that spec laptop. If it runs it must be a performance crawl and it must be sparse of applications.
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?
Written by jojobah on 2007-12-18 23:50:01
Quote:

I find it amazing that you were able to run Windows XP on that spec laptop. If it runs it must be a performance crawl and it must be sparse of applications.





i run xp on a ibm thinkpad 390 2626 50f with 96 meg ram and ms office 2003 . !!!! its a 233mhz with a graphic card of 2,5mg!!

yeah and after i boot about a min few seconds it run more than fine amazing but on the net i saw a webpage that showed it running on 4 mhz true bios manipulation xp who new!
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Old computer?
Written by Tom on 2006-05-19 16:06:41
I find it amazing that 10GB + 128MB on a PIII 800MHz is considered underpowered for what you're doing!

I was running Mandrake 6.1 on a P150MHz laptop with 1.3GB + 80MB. I even had VMware w/ win98 on it. No, I don't want to go back to that. I started w/ linux on a 486 w/ 16MB + 340MB disk.

What can be run on *that* system?
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Laptop
Written by wobf58 on 2007-05-29 19:57:20
Quote:

I have an old IBM Thinkpad A21 and were able to install Ubunte. WLAN was working right after installing. Just great. Now i bought a new laptop, MSI M675 with AMD Turion X2. Does anybody has experience with this laptop and Linux installs? I would like to run SuSE but I am open to any other Distribution as long as I get the WLAN to work.




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You should really try Mandriva 2006
Written by Djamé Seddah on 2006-05-19 16:25:36
It run without a problem in each laptop and pc I tried it.

Really.

go to http://plf.zarb.org
to have your urpmi (equivalent of apt-get) setted up and you'll see....

really

Djamé
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WTF?!
Written by WTF?! on 2006-05-19 17:59:49
2GB?

Install ubuntu in server mode (uses 32MB of RAM) then apt-get install gnome-desktop.

You can run ubuntu, you just have to TRY to run Ubuntu.

Rating it a 3 because you couldn't get it installed says that you probably should stick to Windows.

Worst case, you should have just not rated it.

As for documentation, you didn't look very hard.

next time try www.ubuntuforums.org and look at the stickys or use the search function.

Posted by a WINDOWS user that's installed Ubuntu on a 200MHz box with 1GB of disk space and only 32MB of memory just for the h*ll of it.
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dont expect every one does have such und
Written by Gunnar on 2007-05-12 06:03:05
Quote:

2GB?

Install ubuntu in server mode (uses 32MB of RAM) then apt-get install gnome-desktop.

You can run ubuntu, you just have to TRY to run Ubuntu.

Rating it a 3 because you couldn't get it installed says that you probably should stick to Windows.

Worst case, you should have just not rated it.

As for documentation, you didn't look very hard.

next time try www.ubuntuforums.org and look at the stickys or use the search function.

Posted by a WINDOWS user that's installed Ubuntu on a 200MHz box with 1GB of disk space and only 32MB of memory just for the h*ll of it.





dont expect that everyone think the way you do. Some people make their decisions based on buzzwords so they simply dont know that you can update ubuntu with 2 lines to kde.
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RV: Red HAT
Written by Jorge on 2008-02-21 15:52:50
Quote:

Quote:

2GB?

Install ubuntu in server mode (uses 32MB of RAM) then apt-get install gnome-desktop.

You can run ubuntu, you just have to TRY to run Ubuntu.

Rating it a 3 because you couldn't get it installed says that you probably should stick to Windows.

Worst case, you should have just not rated it.

As for documentation, you didn't look very hard.

next time try www.ubuntuforums.org and look at the stickys or use the search function.

Posted by a WINDOWS user that's installed Ubuntu on a 200MHz box with 1GB of disk space and only 32MB of memory just for the h*ll of it.





dont expect that everyone think the way you do. Some people make their decisions based on buzzwords so they simply dont know that you can update ubuntu with 2 lines to kde.




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Zenwalk
Written by gujeroo on 2006-05-19 18:01:34
I also tried some different flavours of Linux on an even older Laptop (200MHz) and found that Zenwalk is an excellent Choice.

Like Vector it comes from Slackware, but it uses XFce, which is fast yet complete. It can be used to run either QT (KDE) or GTK (Gnome) Applications, but I prefer GTK ones.
I personally disliked Vector, it did not look 'professional' enough to me (dancing penguins and stars flashing in the login manager).

I would suggest giving Zenwalk a try.

Cheers
Gujeroo
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Fifth of November
Written by Phil Vance on 2006-05-19 18:14:09
For older laptops, I would recommend Zenwalk linux - it uses XFCE instead of KDE, but other than that, it meets all of your requirements. I've installed it on an old Sony PictureBook PCG-C1X with no major issues. My wife (non-techie) absolutely loves it. Small and zippy. It's a small group, but on the other hand, I made a request on the forums (better wifi support) and they had a better wifi app tested & included in the distro in about a week - hard to beat that.

When I saw the list of distros you were trying, I cringed inwardly - trying to get any of the big boys onto a HD partition that size is like trying to drive a Buick through the eye of a needle.
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just missed it :(
Written by Manny on 2006-05-19 18:21:40
It's a pity you didn't try the real Slackware, i can't understand why you were "intimitaded" if you see yourself "As an advanced Linux user, I found Vector Linux to be..."
You just missed the one that suits your needs, on my laptop i got XP, Gentoo, FreeBSD, Slackware. Wanna guess which one is the faster, easier to mantain, just works? Correct
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KDE is minimal?
Written by noone on 2006-05-19 19:04:12
I know that you mean "these are the minimal items that I require" when you put the list up, but lets be serious... KDE on a "I need a small linux distro on my laptop"?

I am not bashing KDE either... Gnome is in the same heavyweight
(titanic?) boat. As the other commenter said, it must have crawled with XP, why are you trying to clobber it once more with a heavyweight desktop??

Try a real minimalist but full featured desktop, there are plenty of choices out there (ice, WM, fluxbox, metacity, etc, etc)...
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Minimal use
Written by D. Travis North on 2006-05-19 21:12:50
It's slow, but not unbearable. Disable a lot of the frills and it runs okay. Believe it or not, inimum requirements for WinXP: 300mhz, 128MB RAM, 1.5gig HD (we all know it needs twice that).

That's not to say that my shiny new KDE on linux doesn't run faster.
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New Laptop?
Written by reidster on 2006-05-19 21:20:29
It is possible to purchase a new laptop for less than $500 that would be twice as fast, have twice the memory and 4 times the hard drive space. Of course, if money is an issue then a used or refurbished model could be purchased as well. That would eliminate many problems.

Or buy a larger hard drive. Often you only need to remove two screws to get to and replace your drive.

Just my .02 cents!
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Zenwalk !
Written by Devendra Vidhale on 2006-05-19 22:14:10
You should have tried Zenwalk linux too. Given your requirements, it makes perfect sense to go for zenwalk. BTW it comes with Bluefish pre-installed, although thats a non issue for most distributions. See www.zenwalk.org
Off course, nothing matches the glamour and attraction of Gentoo :)
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kubuntu
Written by Vincent on 2006-05-19 23:28:11
I assumed you did not go to www.ubuntumforums.org for any bit of help, right? Judged by your article and the reference you listed.

I was there when I first installed ubuntu on my P-III 700 MHz laptop and it was incredible how rich the information there. You might want to take a second look at ubuntu with the help of the forums.

There are reasons that Fedora and ubuntu are two among the most popular distrubutions.

Vincent
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archlinux
Written by Tom on 2006-05-20 00:21:44
I think you'd be impressed with the speed, ease of use, and hardware support of arch linux.

you have the power to use binary packages in a similiar way to apt-get, while still retaining the ability to build packages on your on, much like ports/portage.

I use it almost daily now on a celeron 1ghz laptop, much like your own.
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Mr.
Written by Rohan Dhruva on 2006-05-20 00:33:34
Wow, your laptop is faster than my pc - my pc is p3 550mhz 256mb ram. And thats the one and only computer I have. Yes, I have 'doze XP on it, and I run debian on it. It works pretty well. I have tried ubuntu, and it works perfectly. But thanks for the review, I might try SUSE now :)

Cheers.
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SLAX!
Written by garoo on 2006-05-20 00:41:26
Get slax: LiveCD is only 96mb of ram req, and can install from the CD, several flavours available, but designed to be small and fast, runs great on older hardware. Has KDE for the desktop, and you there are many modules you can add/remove to make a custom livecd.
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slax and puppy
Written by harocas on 2007-05-24 10:57:40
Slax and puppy es very good. probe Mepis
has KDE and more
Quote:

Get slax: LiveCD is only 96mb of ram req, and can install from the CD, several flavours available, but designed to be small and fast, runs great on older hardware. Has KDE for the desktop, and you there are many modules you can add/remove to make a custom livecd.




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Re: 800 megahertz Celeron, 128MB ram RE
Written by Béranger on 2006-05-20 01:29:41
No, in fact XP works reasonably on the given spec, though 256 MB RAM is highly recommended.
My own old laptop is pretty close: Celeron/850, 10 GB HDD, S3 Savage/IX 8 MB, and has 256 MB of RAM -- but was initially only having 128 MB.
Strangely, WinXP worked much better than Win2k on the given spec with 128 RAM!!
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merchandiser
Written by Bhushan on 2007-07-03 08:16:40
Quote:

No, in fact XP works reasonably on the given spec, though 256 MB RAM is highly recommended.
My own old laptop is pretty close: Celeron/850, 10 GB HDD, S3 Savage/IX 8 MB, and has 256 MB of RAM -- but was initially only having 128 MB.
Strangely, WinXP worked much better than Win2k on the given spec with 128 RAM!!




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what is old is really newer
Written by me on 2006-05-20 02:48:38
i thought when i read the top that he meant an "old" laptop and not a "slightly old" laptop. i was expecting a 100mhz one.
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gtk & qt
Written by Andre on 2006-05-20 02:49:38
your favourite apps are gkt based, and kde is qt based. I would not do that mix with 128mb ram. Using gtk everywhere should save some mb of ram. I suggest you to try xfce. maybe xubuntu would work good, I think it has a smaller hd footprint.
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Debian
Written by John on 2006-05-20 06:30:35
Why didn't you try Debian Sarge? I have a brilliant XFCE install with every program I could possible need for internet, multimedia, development and productivity that weighs in at under 900 mb.
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Zenwalk and Puppy !
Written by Caraibes on 2006-05-20 06:59:30
You should also have tried Zenwalk and Puppy !
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Mepis
Written by sasquatch666 on 2006-05-20 07:36:21
try Mepis it's a live cd similar to Knoppix but it also includes a nice graphical installer,it's a debian based distro,it has excellent hardware detection and I ran it on a similar laptop alongside winXP and it worked well for me.
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Damn Small Linux
Written by Nehemoth on 2006-05-20 08:44:00
Maybe you can try this
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

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WinXP runs fine on PII350 with 128MB ram
Written by fatso83 on 2006-05-20 09:02:43
I have finally replaced this machine with something new, but for me it was more than sufficient. In general it felt kinda snappy. Only thing was browsing with Firefox, which was kinda slow on WinXP, but really SLOOOOOOW on Ubuntu. Why there was such a difference I don't know (and this goes for all distros).

Actually it booted WinXP in less than 20sec, but this was only with Office97 and a few other apps installed. Trying to run Warcraft 3 on the thing actually worked with a GF400MX, but only as long as there wasn't more than 5-6 characters fighting at once.

I would guess a 800mhz celereon would be quite sufficient.
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not exactly XP
Written by me on 2006-05-20 09:04:28
I cannot speak for XP but I needed a "usable desktop" for my old 133 PI with 64MB. To make a long story short: there is no chance running linux+gui+(real)browser, real browser nowadays means Javascript, that is you have to use opera/firefox/... and X which is just tooo slooow. No xynth,nanox coz no app support. Finally I settled on NT4 with IE6+tabextension, hey and you even get Acrobat7 for a 20 year old OS, ...what a pity ;)
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Plenty of power, if...
Written by Rick on 2006-05-20 09:38:11
I've installed and run XP on machines with PIII 350 megahertz chips, with 128 MB of RAM, and had them run acceptably. If you choose to turn off all visual effects in XP and you're not looking to run processor-heavy applications, XP can be functional at pretty low specs.

It's not pretty, but it'll certainly work for web browsing, email, etc.

That said, I'd rather install Linux if that's all I'm going to do on older hardware. I totally understand the Wife Factor and the need to work with XP, though!
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Gentoo in 2 Gig?
Written by Will on 2006-05-20 10:23:03
How on earth are you able to maintain a gentoo intall in only 2 Gig? That isn't even enough space to build glibc. Did you set up some kind of remote storage for all of your source downloads and temporaray build space?
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Debian
Written by Barney on 2006-05-20 10:36:10
I think you will also like Debian testing since it allows you to do a minimal install and apt-get the rest.
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try coLinux or Cygwin?
Written by mike on 2006-05-20 10:56:15
I don't know if they would have been able to handle your specific development needs, but you might also want to check out coLinux (www.colinux.org), which can host linux as a system process alongside Windows and provides excellent performance (and supports Gentoo), and/or Cygwin/MinGW, which provides an X server and many other standard GNU tools. These would enable you to avoid repartitioning and avoid rebooting into another operating system.
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pleeease!
Written by Armona on 2006-05-20 12:43:46
You say you abandoned Suse because it wasnt LSB... And you go with Gentoo?
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Gentoo easily fits in 2Gig
Written by D. Travis North on 2006-05-20 17:03:57
For the purpose of my tests, I didn't use any remote storage. As I'm sure you probably figured out, Gentoo takes up a lot of space for the portage tree and the compilation space. But after I finished my entire system and got everything set up exactly the way I wanted, My complete install was roughly 1.6gig. And I didn't delete any of the temporary files created by portage. But through some creative use of the USE flags, one can create a really compact setup with Gentoo.

Now, I realize that having 80% of my hard drive space is not ideal for daily use. I'd like more free space. Of course, now that I have everything installed, I'm researching how to set up the portage tree on a network drive. Not knowing full well how portage works, I want to be careful. But if I can make that work, it will cut nearly a GIG.
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"Creative use of flags..."
Written by James Scholes on 2007-09-25 05:30:27
Quote:

For the purpose of my tests, I didn't use any remote storage. As I'm sure you probably figured out, Gentoo takes up a lot of space for the portage tree and the compilation space. But after I finished my entire system and got everything set up exactly the way I wanted, My complete install was roughly 1.6gig. And I didn't delete any of the temporary files created by portage. But through some creative use of the USE flags, one can create a really compact setup with Gentoo.





I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with some of the other comments on here: your test isn't fair in the least.

As you've stated, you're already used to Gentoo, and using that knowledge you've managed to shoehorn it onto the laptop.

When I was looking for a viable distro to use, I found out that the best for me was to install the ubuntu server distro (an option from the alternative install CD), then use aptitude to get X, Gnome (WM of choice, but I'm sure KDE would work too), Firefox, AmaroK, OpenOffice.org plus a few others.

This was a P3 600MHz laptop with 256MB RAM and a 6GB harddisc. I'm sure if you stripped gnome out of the above list it would be less than 2GB, as mine ran to less than 3 and I had all the Gnome and KDE libs in there.

If you were willing to get creative with Gentoo, you should have shown the same level of commitment to the other distributions.
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Didn't read what I said...
Written by D. Travis North on 2006-05-20 17:07:18
SUSE is LSB compliant now. 8 years ago, I abandoned it because it didn't seem to be organized in a way that aligned with the average Unix/Linux system at the time. I was using SCO at work, and SUSE didn't seem to be very similar at all.

NOW, SUSE makes a lot of sense. It's made leaps and bounds, and I'm very happy with it.

As for Gentoo, it has its quirks, but they are justified, in my opinion.
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KDE was part of the challenge
Written by D. Travis North on 2006-05-20 17:17:47
I realize full well that KDE isn't what one would call a lightweight desktop. Trust me, I know. I used to be an afterstep user which at the time was a pain to configure...but it was about 1/10 the size of KDE or GNOME. But I've grown used to KDE.

Besides...I have an underlying plan to convince my wife that she likes LInux.
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I will try Zenwalk
Written by D. Travis North on 2006-05-20 17:21:34
Several people, in response to my article, have recommended Zenwalk. None of my friends had used it and I honestly never gave it any thought. But it sounds interesting, and I'll definately try it out down the line.

I think that this article will have a reprise down the line.
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Slax distribution
Written by syner on 2006-05-20 19:09:22
Try www.slax.org
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wrong title, wrong distros, wrong articl
Written by RAM on 2006-05-21 02:34:52
I have old hardware too, and I wouldn't think of the same software the author reviewed. He is full of wrong assumptions or did not research carefully enough:

Quote:

The LiveCD distributions were not considered at all. While it may seem appealing to have an installation that doesn't impact my hard drive, these distributions often run much too slow for my laptop.





DSL anyone? Slax? Puppy? A lot of commenters have pointed out those 3, I can add BeatrIX/BeaFanatIX to the count: all of them tiny and shiny live-cds intented for old hardware. Of the installing crowd zenwalk, yoper, arch... For experienced users who know what to left out during installation: debian.

And the "intended functionality" and scarce storage space? KDE, Fx, T-bird, GIMP? Obviously ironic... There are some free alternatives tod the GIMP that are light, although w/o all the functionality. DSL have a great patched version of Dillo for browsing most of the web. It also comes with sylpheed claws for mail, etc. There are a lot of possibilities when you are looking for software/distros intended for old hardware, but they are not KDE, GIMP or Mozilla based... This, or the title was indeed ill chosen.
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Missing Distros?
Written by Bloke on 2006-05-21 09:36:14
Although I'm repeating what others have said. Where is Debian and Slackware??
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Distro for older laptop
Written by George Nielsen on 2006-05-21 09:37:48
I would give Slackware a try and use XFce4 as your window manager. XFce4 has good functionality and runs lighter than KDE. You will be able to run all of the apps on your list with XFce4.
Slackware would be my choice.
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educator
Written by blackdog on 2006-05-21 12:28:02
An old programming book once adviced the readers to take a step back and look at the situation again from a wider perspective.

In your case you want to run all your linux applications and do it from your wife's laptop. ...and she doesn't want you to mess with her laptop much.

So... You ask for a small distribution to dual-boot on the laptop. But maybe you should "zoom out" a bit more to see more possible solutions.

OK... This is how I would solve the situation:

Install and configure a freeNX terminal server system on your server. Then install NoMachine's NX client (for windows) on the laptop and use it to connect to your server.

There you have it. Your very own favourite desktop, fully mobile and with a minimum of modifications to her machine.

Sorry for cheating.
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ubuntu too hard?
Written by shane on 2006-05-21 13:26:22
well lets see here i have run ubuntu on everything from a 300mhz pentium II mmx with 300mb pc 133 ram....and a 10 gig hard drive upto my current computer which is an amd xp 2800+ and never had any issues...i think you gave it an unfair chance my freind...and as for documentation there is tons of it everywhere O_o www.ubuntu.com is one place to start....it has alot of good documentation for both ubuntu and kubuntu.

also there is xchat as well that connects to freenode.net all you have to do is open it up and connect and you are in the ubuntu help room.
if anything you should rate your knowledge of linux a 3 and this distro a 10.
even more so if a moron like me can use it.
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(k)Ubuntu
Written by Chanchao on 2006-05-21 23:00:17
Kubuntu and Ubuntu require more space than the partition you gave it. As for documentation, the Ubuntu documentation is really good. Kubuntu is a repackaging of Ubuntu with KDE as defauld and is in no way small. If you really want to use KDE even on old hardware, then it's probably best to start with an Ubuntu Server install (bare-bones) and then ONLY add the kde-desktop to it. (Or just those KDE packages you actually want to use.)

Also Firefox as a web browser isn't the smallest ever, but I can see why you'd want to use it obviously.

Actually your laptop isn't THAT old... Mine is a Pentium 3 with 20 Gb disk, I also dual boot windows. Ubuntu runs absolutey stellar on it. If I only had a 10 Gb disk then I'd either run Windows VERY minimally (Windows 2000 I guess), not run Windows at all, or pick up a cheapo second hand 20 Gb disk to replace the 10Gb one. :)
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Xubuntu !
Written by Kjell on 2006-05-22 01:43:00
You can always try Xubuntu, i run Kubuntu on an old Compaq PII laptop but it is rather slow to start. When i get the time i will try out Xubuntu instead.

Cheers Kjell
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Linux on old Laptops
Written by stuski on 2006-05-22 03:45:30
I just shipped an old Fuji 850Mhz e series lifebook out to my son that dual boots XP and Simply MEPIS (although it has 256MB ram and a 40G HDD). It works great, even with the no-name wireless PCMCIA card. With that as an inspiration, I have decided to refurb old laptops, and preload them with Linux (as a hobby, mostly) for anyone interested in getting one. I have found the following distros quite good:
Vector SOHO 5.1.1 (has KDE and Bluefish)
Damn Small Linux (of course!)
Simply Mepis 6.0 (PIII or better)
Puppy
Xubuntu
...and I'm still playing with more, most of which have already been mentioned here.
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"Kubuntu / Ubuntu"? What a lie!
Written by David Kastrup on 2006-05-22 08:41:54
You did not test Ubuntu at all. Since Ubuntu is quite better integrated and takes fewer resources, it is utterly unfair to list it in the headline when you have not actually seen it, just because people told you it would have been a good idea to actually look at it.

If what you tested is Kubuntu, then it is dishonest to state anything different in your headlines and summary.
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xubuntu
Written by towner on 2006-05-22 13:43:31
I can recommend Xubuntu.

I've got a Celeron 400Mhz, 256 MB ram and a 5 GB hard drive. I installed dapper as a server install, it picked up my pcmcia xircom card, no problems, and apt-get xubuntu-desktop...This baby flies. I've got no intention to upgrade my laptop. It has given it a new lease of life and saved me quids....
I dont slow it down with open office either, Abiword goes like stink!
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Gentoo?
Written by Markus on 2006-05-22 15:01:12
Rating gentoo so much higher then the rest is weird to me! Maybe starters with the same problem read it and then try gentoo. Trust me they will NEVER ever try linux again! Gentoo is for freaks and not for users that like everything easygoing! I am using linux since quite a while and studied information technology and cannot at all recommend that distribution. I got it running but needed 2 weeks to do so!
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Is Gentoo for freaks?
Written by Alejandro Nova on 2007-04-25 07:53:03
Quote:

Rating gentoo so much higher then the rest is weird to me! Maybe starters with the same problem read it and then try gentoo. Trust me they will NEVER ever try linux again! Gentoo is for freaks and not for users that like everything easygoing! I am using linux since quite a while and studied information technology and cannot at all recommend that distribution. I got it running but needed 2 weeks to do so!





Is Gentoo for freaks? Because I am a law student, I'm no IT engineer, and I used Gentoo for 3 years. Yes, it takes 3 days or 2 weeks to get it up and running, but, believe me, you will never have to repeat that process, ever. And, in case if you didn't notice it, Gentoo will be used in a LAPTOP. That means: you can compile your dear packages in distcc with your beloved Core Duo (taking 6 hours instead of 2 weeks), and install BINARY packages in your P III laptop with Portage. Optimized and stripped of all the features you don't want.

I also join to the Arch crowd. You must try Arch in that laptop ;)
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ret.
Written by irlandes on 2006-05-22 21:53:12
This may be a minor point, but Fedora is NOT based on Redhat. Fedora is sponsored by Redhat as a development community for Redhat, period. Fedora is changing fast, Redhat is the well tested stable result of the development process, and it is not free. Redhat keeps saying thus, but most folks don't pay attention. Redhat "Clones" are available under other names. e.g. - CentOs which is free for download, but is not supported by Redhat and it is prohibited to call it Redhat.
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reiserfs on laptop
Written by Alex Klymov on 2006-05-24 14:51:38
...might be not the best choice gentoo or not. Some post on gentoo forum into doing small research on speed/cpu consumption of various filesystems and JFS seem to be definitely a choice for laptop - had to convert my laptop to jfs and it does take less CPU... not to mention mount/unmount time.
As of OS selection - I'm big fan of gentoo as of late. Still have to run 115+ redhat servers as job requirement though. Before my personal choice was Slackware but now this distro is lagging in implementing a lot of useful improvements (PAM/2.6 kernel, grub...) the list is getting longer and longer...
There is an option for Gentoo - if you don't have enough resourses to compile the package you can set BINHOST variable in your /etc/make.conf and download precompiled package for your architecture...
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Wrong title - Key is light weight deskto
Written by Emmanuel_uk on 2006-05-26 02:12:51
A misleading title.
I run PII 300 MHz with mandriva 2006, no problem at all. The key is a lightweight desktop.

Max the ram if you can.
Do not forget to check hdparm on old laptop.

That is all there is to it
If the HD is "really small", under 800Mo/1 Go, then you enter a restrive no of distro, but you are left with DSL, puppy and the like
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Disk space gentoo kde
Written by Evald Sjöberg on 2006-05-26 06:36:33
I want to use only kde programs for workstations. What USE settings should I use? Can you or anyone reveal that?
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USE flags
Written by Alejandro Nova on 2007-04-25 08:00:00
Quote:

I want to use only kde programs for workstations. What USE settings should I use? Can you or anyone reveal that?





USE="kde qt3 qt4 -gnome"

If you are overkill with "KDE only", USE="-gtk", but use with extreme caution.
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USE flags
Written by Alejandro Nova on 2007-04-25 08:01:53
Quote:

I want to use only kde programs for workstations. What USE settings should I use? Can you or anyone reveal that?





USE="kde qt3 qt4 -gnome"

If you are overkill with "KDE only", USE="-gtk", but use with extreme caution.
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Prism2 chipsets have native support!
Written by jabby on 2006-05-27 07:09:41
You state multiple times that the Prism2 chipset isn't autodetected and that it requires proprietary firmware. Either this is some new version of the chipset or you don't have your facts straight. The Prism2 chipset from Intersil was one of the first chipsets to come with full specifications, allowing for native drivers to be written under *BSD and Linux. I have a USB network dongle with a Prism2. It "just works(TM)" in Linux.

Not being detected on install does not necessarily mean that it's not supported. It just means that it has to be configured after installation. In my case, it did take some searching to find the magical combination of commands, but I just put them in a script and it's ready to go. It uses the wlanctl-ng interface. To get the hardware detected, you should be able to run this:

modprobe prism2_usb prism2_doreset=1

Enjoy!
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I'm sorry, but...
Written by Tetsuo on 2006-05-29 03:15:16
... just because he didn't like your personal preference of distro doesn't make him an idiot. Goddamned Linux zealots are almost as bad as Mac zealots. I mean, I like Linux, but this is not a religion thing - it's not a matter of Ultimate Truth.
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Zenwalk on picturebook
Written by Ed Taylor on 2006-06-11 09:35:48
Hey Phil,

How did you install Zenwalk? It doesn't recognize the PCMCIA cd-rom and I don't have a windows partition to place the iso image on? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
So far, I've only been able to get FC4 on it and it's achingly slow (even without Gnome or KDE)!

Thanks,

Ed
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I recommend Ubuntu
Written by Ubuntu on 2007-09-10 19:20:33
Hi Ed,

Just was reading posts...
Next time you could try Ubuntu. Once you have installation cd, just put it in and try without installing.
If you liked it, you can install it very easily - provided it shouldnt be dual-boot with Windows. Dual boot was reported to be easy to do, but I haven't done it, so dont know.
Just try it - it is very stable and easy-to-use, yet professional.
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ubuntu
Written by dr.salahuddin on 2007-10-15 14:39:58
i tried ubuntu on my celeron1.1 machine with 128 ram . i cannot even start the os, after wasting a long time the screen goes black .any idea how i can install.
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Late, I know, but if you look again look
Written by joe f. on 2006-06-15 09:42:32
Kanotix Lite. Just installed it on an off-brand laptop with a Via C3 processor and 128 MB of RAM. It has KDE and IceWM and a bunch of Kanotix goodness. You end up with a nice Debian install.

I personally have Zenwalk on my laptop (a centrino that spends most of its time running at 600Mhz) and it's nice. They have the KDE packages available for download, too.

Another choice is STX Linux. It uses the EDE desktop, but it's Slackware-based, so you should be able to just use slapt-get to install KDE.

I know this is an old discussion, but people might get here via a search, as I did, and I thought I'd add my $.02. I just installed Linux on a 300 Mhz K6-II and that Via C3, so I just did something very similar to what you did, but ended up at a different place.
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new laptop battery
Written by battery on 2007-07-06 21:25:30
Verizon is about the only place you can get the authentic RIM product and matching door. Most other sites are out of stock and even when they are in stock they have the black battery door which looks like crap.
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Relacement Electronics Battery
Written by batterybattery on 2008-02-22 18:40:01
Quote:

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I recommend Zenwalk
Written by tritran@yandex.ru on 2006-07-27 07:31:30
I am in the same situation: my wife have a Fujitsu Laptop, Celeron 600, 192MB RAM, 16G HDD, and I have spent a lot of time to find a good distro for her.

RedHat 9: works but the printing not good (old drivers)

Debian Sarge: same as Red Hat 9.

Xubuntu: Great but slow.

Zenwalk: Perfect -- very fast and works well.

My choice is Zenwalk. I use Xfce, but you can download in install KDE. Mplayer, OpenOffice 2.0.3 (latest version), XMMS, all works. Zenwalk is considerably faster than other and take quite few of RAM. I notice that in most case, it only use 2 or 4 MB on swap -- namely it run all in RAM.
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Xubuntu: my first linux experience
Written by Juan Carlos Lopez on 2006-07-27 08:47:53
3 days ago I got a Notebook HP n3410 K6-2+ 550 mhz “3D-now” 64mb ram (8mb r used for the video card) 5GB HD max res: 800×600. It is in very good condition. It has (or i may say “had”) Windows ME. After a lot of online research i decided to download and install xubuntu 6.0.

The installation is as easier as any windows os. actually, a little bit better (not as faster, though) It also detected and install my 108 Mbps Wireless PC Card Model WG511T.

I did notice that my pc was faster when I was using the oem windows me. But, i have read so good comments about that xubuntu that I just order new memory (256mb) for my laptop (i can wait to receive that memory). I only want to use this pc as emergency pc or just to go to my local starbucks to check my email.

I wonder where can i get some applications for my laptop; applications that allow me to maximize the battery life and also to make the hibernation process as smooth as my girlfriend’s mac laptop.
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slanted?
Written by Joe Snow on 2006-07-29 18:42:27
The article reads well, but, I can't help but constantly feel a bias toward Gentoo the entire time. From the get-go I could predict which distro he would pick because he's sticking to what he knows how to operate best, not what necessarily IS best per-say.

As some