Location?

[Lich]

Is there anyone here from the upper mid-west in general, or specifically North Dakota? Just curious.

We have a Linux Users Group in the area that is, I'm sorry to say, horrible. I'd be interested to know of other individuals in the area.

[elija]

I wonder if you have just insulted any regulars...

Not me, North Dakota would be one nasty commute!

Relevant Linky

[Tsarevich]

Why what do they do that you say they are bad guys?

[Lich]

Why what do they do that you say they are bad guys?

They are a group of self-congratulatory people who offer no real help to anyone.

I seek a lot of help, but as I advance, I give my time and assistance as freely as I am feasibly able. That's the spirit of Open Source, true or false?

The LUG around here doesn't share that view. Not one of them is willing - or likely even capable - to step up to the plate and get people going on Linux. They piss and moan about Microsoft and how people should switch to Linux. They wear their cute Tux T-shirts and all, but aren't there to give support when it comes down to it. Well, I say that's a bunch of crap. Linux is superior to MS, but for Joe Nobody, what's the alternative except to stick with MS if he can't figure out Linux? Even if they are interested, they'll only get so far on their own and with the net.

In the end, Linux gets a bad reputation because if Joe Nobody couldn't figure it out, and LUG won't or can't tutor him enough to get him going on his own, then Linux ends up being the "advanced OS for programmer types" and 'Joe' puts it mentally out of his reach. Microsoft = 1, Linux = 0.

That's how it goes.

Now, I don't think anyone needs to be babied. You have to expect a certain level of responsibility from people. You can't walk them through every action. But at least get them going on concepts, and offer tutelage from time to time.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for life.

[Thrillhouse]

The LUG around here doesn't share that view. Not one of them is willing - or likely even capable - to step up to the plate and get people going on Linux. They piss and moan about Microsoft and how people should switch to Linux. They wear their cute Tux T-shirts and all, but aren't there to give support when it comes down to it. Well, I say that's a bunch of crap. Linux is superior to MS, but for Joe Nobody, what's the alternative except to stick with MS if he can't figure out Linux? Even if they are interested, they'll only get so far on their own and with the net.

I think you'll find this characteristic in many Linux users and that it's not entirely localized to your LUG. You can see it especially in some of the users of "more advanced" distros. They are a little elitist. They have their club and they are very proud of the fact that they even managed to get the distro installed. Therefore, any less experienced user who is interested in the distribution and, in Linux for that matter, is immediately shunned for lack of knowledge or expertise.

Of course, it goes both ways. Some of those people are very willing to help new users and even give them encouragement but there are others who will say "maybe you should try ubuntu". Now, that may very well be true; maybe the new user is in a little over their head but I think if a person knows the challenge that's in front of them and knows it's going to be difficult, they shouldn't be denied the right to persist and to receive help. You could learn more in a week of using a more advanced distro than in a year of using one of the "newbie-friendly" ones. That's why the whole "which distro should i use?" question is so difficult to solve. Some people want things laid out for them right from the start and some people want to work a little harder and understand what's going on. It doesn't matter what experience level you have; you should be able to try anything.

Sorry for the little rant but I too feel Linux users are a little provincial sometimes. They detest the fact that Microsoft rules the computer world yet they will do nothing about it.

[Lich]

Sorry for the little rant but I too feel Linux users are a little provincial sometimes. They detest the fact that Microsoft rules the computer world yet they will do nothing about it.

Your last line more or less sums it up. I feel that because I have been helped, I should help in return.

That said, returning to the original post, if any Linuxians are in the ND area, give me a holler.

[elija]

I kind of wonder how easy people would find it to install Windows
from scratch if it wasn't already pre-installed when they bought
the thing.

A case in point. I have NEVER had a Linux distro fail to detect and
install drivers for my Network, I'm not talking wireless here. I have
NEVER seen Windows do the same without a driver install, for
which you need to get the network drivers, usually from the
internet....

I agree that some Linux groups and forums can come across as
elitist, but in fairness to them, they are used to dealing with very
skilled people who are motivated to learn and try things out. To
suddenly have to deal with Joe Public must be quite a culture
shock!

[Roxoff]

Perhaps this would be a good time to post a link up to the LinuxForums group map on Frapper that someone set up a while ago. If everyone had a marker, you'd know who was close