Why the abuse?

[Manchunian]

This is the first time I've started a thread in the Coffee Lounge - but I really want to vent something: what's been getting into everyone recently? One of the things I really like about this forum is its friendliness - and this is often cited by the new arrivals as a reason for joining. But in the last week everyone seems to be getting shirty - is it just my imagination, or has anyone else noticed this? I've just finished reading a thread where the original poster accused Dapper Dan of thinking he was nieve and stupid, because he clicked on the Linux-is-not-Windows link in Dapper's signature rather than the one he was actually given; then I saw one of the moderators (who'll remain nameless) tell a brand new member that his question had been asked before, after which the thread was promptly closed, without so much as a "welcome"; earlier in the week another member posted three times the same thread, and also created a double identity for himself, only he declined to actually give any information about his problem. When he didn't get an answer, disgusted by our lack of co-operativeness, mind-reading-skills and an immediate solution to his difficulties, he decided to leave stating that "no one wanted to help him." Finally another member declared that he was leaving us because of the adverts. ...It seems that some members think that the Linux community owes them something; and some Linux veterans are forgetting just what it's like to be a newbie. Newbies have to bear in mind that this forum, and the whole Linux community, is volunteer and not profit based; veterans need to remember that the future of Linux lies in the hands of the newbies, but that the newbies will ask questions which are...well, noob.

[techieMoe]

I am the nameless moderator who closed the thread you mentioned. I knew when I did that that someone would remark about it. Usually I'm more cordial. They caught me at a bad time. My mistake.

I was also the person who had to deal with the multiple-named user who wouldn't give us any more information and demanded answers. These sorts of people pop up from time to time.

I can't speak for all the moderators, but membership is up lately and we're all doing our best to handle the influx of people, some friendly and others not. Core Wizard is also in the process of implementing some much-needed improvements to the site, and we have a couple of other ideas we're batting around as far as forum support. Perhaps I'm wearing myself a little thin. If I've offended any of the members with a less-than-pleasant response, I apologize.

[Manchunian]

I am the nameless moderator who closed the thread you mentioned.

Yes, you are. But I wanted to keep you nameless because I really think you do a grand job.
I know how frustrating it can be answering the same question time and time again, but some people really are new to forums and netiquette and we have to allow for that. One person contacted me via a private messages because he felt too timid to post for the first time - it shows just what a big step it can be for some.
We must always keep in mind that for many, forums represent the official voice of Linux, and if we don't keep our cool then that can have an affect on the overall image of Linux and Open source computing. We all do it from time to time, though, it's only human: and if anyone ever catches me doing it, I hope you'll give me a right good tap on the knuckles!

[techieMoe]

Yes, you are. But I wanted to keep you nameless because I really think you do a grand job.

I appreciate the courtesy, and the compliment.

We all do it from time to time, though, it's only human: and if anyone ever catches me doing it, I hope you'll give me a right good tap on the knuckles!

Hold on.... ::digs out his Ebullient Knuckle-Tapper of Supreme Self-Righteousness +5 and sets it on the desk::

Ok. No problem.

[fingal]

Hi Manchunian - I've been a LFO member for roughly 4 years* now, although I went for almost a year without posting anything at all. I've seen members come and go... Some have climbed to the dizzying heights of Guru-dom, others have started as trolls, become helpful members and then mysteriously vanished... Some have become Trusted Penguins <snigger> or Moderators.

I've seen boorish behaviour, wonderful altruistic behaviour, selfless helpfulness in the face of seemingly impossible installation problems. But I keep coming back for more. Why? Well, partly - like you said - it's the kind of Forum that is 'newbie friendly', and partly there's an underlying feel of respect, no matter what your level of expertise.

Personally I've learned to be comfortable posting online, but I still hate it when the bad stuff happens. In the end, it's worth it for the shared experience of our favourite operating system and the warm yummy feeling you get when you contribute to helping out with those more frustrating moments.

So bless us all, every one!

* Ruddy hell! More like nearly 5!

PS - Some people only go online to be disagreeable - strange but true. I have learned to ignore threads which are basically impolite or which call for a 'fast reply'.

[Manchunian]

I think it's time for a group hug

[fingal]

I think it's time for a group hug

I'll hug anyone me...

[elija]

I moderate on some other highly popular tech forums and this kind of thing
happens a lot. It is a fact that there is only just so many times you can be
completely patient with the following.

Plz Hlp Cute Female Blonde......

I ignore these. There is something disturbing about a 40 something, 22 stone
bloke pretending to be a cute female blonde....

It's broken. Help me

If I'm in a good mood, I'll gently ask for more info, or more usually I'll ask for
more info using gentle sarcasm involving my psychic powers to make my point.

I need help

My standard reply here is... See a shrink!

It's broken. Please help Urgently

I usually wait a while and then use the sarcasm answer.

I am sure that anyone who has been on line and in forums for more than a
week or two has seen these many, many times.

I never used to do anything like this, but it does wear you down. I think that's
one of the main reasons people disappear suddenly from forums they have
been active on for ages. It's funny there has been letters bemoaning the
lack of friendliness in certain Linux forums and the editorial team seem to
agree. I think they should be bombarded with the questions above and see
how well they handle it

This is however one of the friendliest places on the interweb, so I don't think
we have that much to worry about.

[Manchunian]

We need to clearly distinguish jerks and newbies. I think it's quite justified to tell a jerk to take a hike. Notice that in my thread I'm not just ranting about our reactions, but also about those of the outraged newbie who's disgusted that we can't solve all their problems with a wave of our magic wands. With such people, firmness is definitely required, and techiemoe was absolutely right to tell the poster we mentioned earlier where to go. Actually, he told him that he could go there with our blessing, and I don't think a lot of people would disagree with him for doing so.
Newies, however, are a different matter. I remember what it was like: I managed for months to sort things out myself when I first started using Linux; nevertheless, when I posted for the first time I felt really nervous about it. But I already had a few years experience dabbling with computers so I had a bit of a head-start; some people, however, have difficulties just turning them on. Windows 'sort of' caters for these people; I'm afraid that Linux doesn't, not yet anyway.To throw an RTFM comment at people such as these is stupid, as they don't even understand TFM (I'm not saying anyone on this site would say RTFM - I know they wouldn't, that's why I like it so much; but I have seen it elsewhere). I know you feel the same way as I do about all this, though, elija. We both worked really, really hard recently to help one such person. I still feel cross with myself that we couldn't help him more, despite the time and effort we both spent trying to get him on his feet.
Obviously we can't go on giving out the same information time and time again at great length - of course not. But we need to ensure that the newbies feel that their particular problem interests us, and that they're not stupid because they need help with it. I think Ozar is very good at this. Whenever a newbie comes here for the first time, he's there with a warm hello and a few links to point them in the right direction. When he closes a thread because it's been covered before, he does so in a way that doesn't hurt. That's how we need to deal with these questions: firm but welcoming nevertheless.

[Dies]

....earlier in the week another member posted three times the same thread, and also created a double identity for himself, only he declined to actually give any information about his problem. When he didn't get an answer, disgusted by our lack of co-operativeness, mind-reading-skills and an immediate solution to his difficulties, he decided to leave stating that "no one wanted to help him." ...

You mean this guy...

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/ubu...re-ubuntu.html




As far as the rest of your post, I really haven't spent enough time around here to comment other than to say that these types of things are not unique to this forum, from what I have seen I think it's a pretty friendly place and the mods seem to strike a nice balance.

Of course it's all about perception, so not everyone will agree.

Personally, I don't believe it's a good idea to reward lazy or demanding behavior.
Those threads, if you can tell which ones, are best avoided.