Uh oh, does this mean I'm no longer such a noob?

[lucho]

I have almost no posts this forum so I thought I'd remedy
that with a recent story. Before I begin, let me point out that while
I work hard to be open-minded and objective with all OS/ software
in general (with emphasis on objective) I admit to being a debian fanboy.
So last weekend I suddenly got an inexplicable urge to give Slackware a
try. I'd avoided it in the past because of bad experiences with some of its
spinoffs like GoblinX and Arch. But, ok said I, into the fire we go.

I downloaded BlueWhite64 12.1 because I prefer to go with 64-bit
distros (yeah, I know about the real 32-bit vs. 64-bit performance difference
but dammit, I like my placebo effect ) and BW64 seems to be the "purest"
64-bit Slackware.

So, what happened? Well, everything installed without a hitch; the
installer reminds me an awful lot of the Sarge installer: ncurses, long-winded
(well, not as much as Sarge) and tedious. But not difficult, just tedious. After
installation I rebooted, and cheated, just a little. I rebooted into Debian and
copied over some config files ( fstab, resolv.conf, etc. ) instead of configuring
them. I had told the installer not to install a bootloader, so it installed LILO
in /boot/lilo . After editing Debian's GRUB I rebooted into BW64.

I probably shouldn't have used KPackage to remove things I know
I won't need, but it got the job done. I compiled a new kernel using the
2.6.25.3 source and the 2.6.25-dark1 patch and and couple of other apps
(namely Swaret, MPlayer, Xine, and FFmpeg), along with installing the Nvidia
driver. The result was a system I could work on.

So to make a long story short, here are my observations:
- All of the guides and tips that I pulled off the Slackware site worked without
a hitch on BW64.
- Performance is very similar to Debian Sid, with a slight edge going to BW64.
- I admit it: I'm lazy. Apt-Get has thouroughly spoiled me WRT package man-
agement / installation. I had no difficulty compiling things (even the kernel
was straightfoward), but it's more work than I care for.

Slackware is supposed to be difficult, a distro for advanced users. I'm
not in IT, nor have I studied computers. I'm just a shadetree mechanic with
a keyboard, but BW64/ Slackware turned out to be easier than some "User-
Friendly" distros. So, my question is two-fold: not "What do you think of
Slackware," but "How do compare Slackware to more mainstream distros?"

My second question is just this: does anybody else have stories to tell
about BlueWhite64 ? Do you all think it's "pure" Slackware?

[techieMoe]

- All of the guides and tips that I pulled off the Slackware site worked without
a hitch on BW64.

I'm not surprised. The creator of BlueWhite tries very hard to make it 100% compatible with the way 32-bit Slackware works.

Slackware is supposed to be difficult, a distro for advanced users. I'm
not in IT, nor have I studied computers. I'm just a shadetree mechanic with
a keyboard, but BW64/ Slackware turned out to be easier than some "User-
Friendly" distros.

You compile your own kernels. You're already a cut above the average joe here. Perhaps the reason you find "user-friendly" distros harder to use is because you have it in your mind how things *should* work and those distros don't always perform the way you want. It's the same idea with people who are XP gurus and try out Linux. Having too much specialized knowledge can get in the way sometimes.

but "How do compare Slackware to more mainstream distros?"

For me personally, I prefer more mainstream distros to Slackware. I don't want to tinker just to get the system *working*, I'd rather spend my time tinkering with a working system to get it the way I want.

My second question is just this: does anybody else have stories to tell
about BlueWhite64 ? Do you all think it's "pure" Slackware?

Yes, but you already found my story about it. And yes, I do think of it as pure Slackware, just ported to a different CPU.

[lucho]

You compile your own kernels. You're already a cut above the average joe here. Perhaps the reason you find "user-friendly" distros harder to use is because you have it in your mind how things *should* work and those distros don't always perform the way you want. It's the same idea with people who are XP gurus and try out Linux. Having too much specialized knowledge can get in the way sometimes.

LOL, guilty as charged. I've already blown up more than one Ubuntu
installation because of it.

For me personally, I prefer more mainstream distros to Slackware. I don't want to tinker just to get the system *working*, I'd rather spend my time tinkering with a working system to get it the way I want.

Did the it give you too the impression that you were doing the com-
puter's job instead of the other way around (which is why computers were
invented in the first place)? If asked, I'd have to say that this is my opinion
of Slackware in general.

[techieMoe]

Did the it give you too the impression that you were doing the computer's job instead of the other way around (which is why computers were invented in the first place)? If asked, I'd have to say that this is my opinion of Slackware in general.

You know, you can keep typing in the thread post box and it will automatically wrap. Yes, my general annoyance with Slackware is that I feel like I'm having to do something that the OS should be doing by itself. Of course, this is something that Slackware fans actually prefer, so I don't see that changing any time soon.

[Freston]

The design of Slackware isn't aimed towards the mainstream desktop user. You can build a desktop system out of it. But just as easily you can build a file|print|fax|application|web|dhcp server, as bloated or lean as you can device, be it a headless machine or a multimedia station.

But the thing is, and that is Slackwares charme, is that you have to build it yourself. It doesn't boot into X by default. Very few configurations are guessed by the installer. After the <20 minute install, all you have is a bootable system, if ending up with a blinking cursor fits your definition of a full boot. Many people wouldn't agree the apparatus was done booting. And it's by then far from usable for even the most trivial user tasks.

But whatever you set up, you don't have to spend time disabling things you don't want or need. If you didn't tell the machine to do task y, it doesn't do task y.

That said. Slack makes no pretence about it's audience. Look at the website. It's the most spartanic website out there. It's not at all inviting. If you don't know what Slackware is, and you don't know if it's something you want, then it's not the kind of site you'd read, explore, get interested in. I mean, it doesn't even have colors!
It's a far cry from the happy pictures of people with their laptops in the parc or leizurely on their designer couch, with which other Linux distro's fill their pages with. Even the true Unix derivatives like BSD, Solaris etc have better marketing geared towards capturing new users' interrest.



____________
Heheh, techieMoe... wouldn't you just love to see a Slackbuntu?
Actually, thinking about it. That could be kinda like Vector. I'm a great fan of Slackware, but as I'm lazy I just install Vector and be done with it.

[techieMoe]

Heheh, techieMoe... wouldn't you just love to see a Slackbuntu?
Actually, thinking about it. That could be kinda like Vector. I'm a great fan of Slackware, but as I'm lazy I just install Vector and be done with it.

I actually do get along pretty well with Vector Linux. I've used it on my desktop machine before. It's a good example that Slackware+Automation doesn't automatically equal death.

I agree with all your statements on Slackware, and I don't want this to become a thread bashing it. It's made for people who want to manually configure everything. For that purpose, it is excellent. I'm not one of those people, so I doubt I'll ever use Slack for anything other than curiosity's sake.

[lucho]

I agree; I hope nobody takes my words as bashing Slackware. Now that I've actually used it I can say that i'm impressed with it. Even so, I 'll still stick to Debian for my day-to-day workhorse: Slack's do-it-yourself nature isn't really my cup of tea (as an aside, I wonder why Slackware doesn't appear more often in schools. That DIY concept makes it ideal in educational settings).

Does anyone think the Slackware concept should be taken to its logical conclusion and make a netinstall version like Debian does? Small enough to fit on a business card, and it installs a bare minimum system. From there the user starts building his system, installing/compiling the software that he'll use.

[Freston]

Luckily Slackware can take a beating. And so can it's users. Although techieMoe has experienced some can get quite outraged.

Truth is, even Slackware isn't above criticism. And it's actually ok to have an opinion about it.

You come up with two interesting points:
1) Why not more Slackware in school
2) Why not a netinstall version

Well, first.... why not more Linux in schools? Maybe this varies per region, country, what have you? Continent?
Anyway, the Netherlands is behind in everything Linux. Even though our laws make it mandatory for government bodies to store data in open formats and to always consider at least one open source option per software solution, in what we call a 'yes, unless... ' construction. Open source is mandatory, unless proprietary is better.

You'd think *nix kind of software would stand a good chance with legislation like that. But except for a native Linux tax return software application, I know local government bodies can't even open an .odf.

So yeah, I think Slackware in schools is a great idea. But I'm afraid people are lacking the will, the skill and the interest.


To your second idea: NetSlack. Well, Slackware is already compartmentalized in different software sets. That should make it easy. Nothing a wget script shouldn't be able to do. And the Slackware installer is nothing but a couple of ncurses based scripts that can be run separately. Even after install. It should not prove difficult to adjust these things.

Actually, thinking about it... it should be doable

New distro anyone?

[lucho]

You might have read in the media about how Brazil has become a major force behind open source software. Here's an example:
aseigo: Deploying KDE to 52 million young people
You won't find a better indication of intention than this Here's another (sorry I can't find the original post):
Ubuntu Forums - View Single Post - Linux saves 4 million in municipal elections in Brazil
(Ok, enough bragging )

To your second idea: NetSlack. Well, Slackware is already compartmentalized in different software sets. That should make it easy. Nothing a wget script shouldn't be able to do. And the Slackware installer is nothing but a couple of ncurses based scripts that can be run separately. Even after install. It should not prove difficult to adjust these things.
Actually, thinking about it... it should be doable
New distro anyone?

Can't wait to give it a try, it's definately something Patrick V. should hear about