Concerning Viruses on linux

[mattig89ch]

I know there's been alot of talk about this topic, And I'll try to keep it short, but this needs to be said. you don't Need antivirus with linux. The reason for this is because there are almost no viruses written for linux when compared to PC or MAC.

The reason for this lack of viruses is very simple. Almost no-one uses linux compared to Windows or Mac users. It's the same reason the Honda Civic is the most stolen car in america (got that bit of info from 10 Most Stolen Cars) because its the most common car, therefor it's the easiest to steal, this same logic is applied to viruses.

Windows is the most common (I belive the statistic is 98%) Operating system out there, this means that more people know how to write programs for windows, and more viruses.

In conclusion, you shouldn't worry terribly about getting a virus if your a linux users. You may get one, but the odds are against it.

[elija]

It is worth having a virus scanner because Linux can act as a carrier for Windows virus.
This is especially true if you send emails.

[techieMoe]

I know there's been alot of talk about this topic, And I'll try to keep it short, but this needs to be said. you don't Need antivirus with linux. The reason for this is because there are almost no viruses written for linux when compared to PC or MAC.

This much I agree with.

The reason for this lack of viruses is very simple. Almost no-one uses linux compared to Windows or Mac users.

This point, however, I do not agree with. It's an old argument, and there are several high-profile examples to refute it. The first one that comes to mind is Apache Tomcat Server, which is open-source and extremely popular. If you follow your logic it should be riddled with holes due to people taking potshots at it.

It's the same reason the Honda Civic is the most stolen car in america (got that bit of info from 10 Most Stolen Cars) because its the most common car, therefor it's the easiest to steal, this same logic is applied to viruses.

I don't see any logic in that argument. I actually see a broken relationship. Simply because A) A Honda Civic may be the most popular car in the US and B) It's one of the most stolen, does not imply that C) The Honda Civic is easy to steal.

A more proper causal relationship between A and B would say that because of A, there are more Honda Civics in the country, therefore the likelihood of them being stolen is significantly greater than a less popular car, therefore B.

Windows is the most common (I belive the statistic is 98%) Operating system out there, this means that more people know how to write programs for windows, and more viruses.

Yes, Microsoft Windows is the most common OS for desktop computers in the world. That probably means there's quite a few developers out there who know how to write software for it, but that doesn't automatically mean there would be more viruses.

How many millions of software developers work on an operating system like Debian or Fedora on a daily basis? How about just the Linux kernel itself? Surely, by your logic, there must be dozens of virus-writers for those systems as well.

In conclusion, you shouldn't worry terribly about getting a virus if your a linux users. You may get one, but the odds are against it.

I agree with that conclusion, but the methods you used to come to it don't add up.

[mattig89ch]

ok, i'll respond to each of your arguments in turn, I don't know how to quote on this forum, because I seldom use it, so please bear with me.

"It's an old argument, and there are several high-profile examples to refute it. The first one that comes to mind is Apache Tomcat Server, which is open-source and extremely popular. If you follow your logic it should be riddled with holes due to people taking potshots at it."

yes this is the most common linux server, but your point is invalid. a well made product isn't inferior, not too mention that those holes you mentioned have been pugged, over the years, by programers. I, am not a programmer, so I could not tell you how this was done, but I know it has been done.

"It's the same reason the Honda Civic is the most stolen car in america (got that bit of info from 10 Most Stolen Cars) because its the most common car, therefor it's the easiest to steal, this same logic is applied to viruses.

I don't see any logic in that argument. I actually see a broken relationship. Simply because A) A Honda Civic may be the most popular car in the US and B) It's one of the most stolen, does not imply that C) The Honda Civic is easy to steal. A more proper causal relationship between A and B would say that because of A, there are more Honda Civics in the country, therefore the likelihood of them being stolen is significantly greater than a less popular car, therefore B."

my point here was, since its the most common car, more people will know how to steal it. The more people that know this, the more and more likely it is that your Civic is going to be stole instead of your neighbors land-rover (just picked a car out of the blue).

"Windows is the most common (I belive the statistic is 98%) Operating system out there, this means that more people know how to write programs for windows, and more viruses.

Yes, Microsoft Windows is the most common OS for desktop computers in the world. That probably means there's quite a few developers out there who know how to write software for it, but that doesn't automatically mean there would be more viruses."

Yes it does, because those people who write viruses to steal personal information would have better luck with windows users than linux users. Even kids who just want to cause some havock and mayhem would have a better chance of doing so on a Windows machine than a Linux machine.

I hope I have been able to show you how i've reached my conclusion.

And when it comes to your personal information, it is always better to err on the side of caution.

[elija]

my point here was, since its the most common car, more people will know how to steal it.

Just to pick up on this one point. I think it would be better to say that as it is
the most common car, there is a greater chance of someone who knows how to
steal cars stealing one simply because there are more of them.

The same logic cannot apply to Windows / Linux viruses as knowing how to write
a virus for Windows does not confer the knowledge to write a virus for Linux.

[bigtomrodney]

yes this is the most common linux server, but your point is invalid. a well made product isn't inferior,

That's the key to this argument if you look at it. Linux is made in a way that makes it less susceptible to the types of attack that are common and that viruses use. The separation of system and user, granular permissions, deny-by-default and more strict adherence to path variables to name just a few are reasons why attacks on Linux are less successful. I have heard estimates that as much as 60% of webservers run Linux. Surely they are high priority targets? Servers are more interesting targets than desktops with family photos. Yet we see that Linux/Apache is less vulnerable than Windows with IIS.

I know where you are coming from but I agree with techieMoe, you have a few holes in your logic. Being the most used operating system would certainly make you the biggest target, but that in no way infers that you will be the easiest target. Unfortunately we are in a place where the most used is also the easiest target. The majority of other OSes are Unix-based or Unix-like and benefit from that more secure model.

[mattig89ch]

please explain that. to me the logic is one in the same. applying to different types of machines, but the idea holds true. the more common something is, the more likely something bad will happen to it, either being stolen or getting a virus.

[techieMoe]

please explain that. to me the logic is one in the same. applying to different types of machines, but the idea holds true. the more common something is, the more likely something bad will happen to it, either being stolen or getting a virus.

Yes, but you've just changed what you were saying originally. The point you just said is valid. Your original statement was that the more common something is, the easier it is to steal it. I disagree with that.

[rcgreen]

The reason for this is because there are almost no viruses written for linux when compared to PC or MAC.

The real question is, why don't they write Linux viruses. Is it
because they are not motivated, or because Linux is harder
to attack? I don't think that the bad guys lack motivation,
since Linux is a high prestige target. Imagine the bragging
rights to be the famous hacker who brings the mighty penguin
to his knees with a world-wide virus infestation.

An even better question is, Why is the Microsoft system so
vulnerable? The fact is, a knowledgeable user can secure
his system against attack without anti-virus software.

To get at the root of the issue you need to know that web site
designers have been waging war against sound web standards
for as long as anyone can remember. They want control. Go on
any forum for web designers and it will be littered with questions
like "How do I force font size to be thus and such" and "How do
I disable the back button?"

Microsoft cannot afford to offend such a powerful constituency,
nor can they afford to offend advertisers. The Microsoft web
browser is designed to keep these people happy, by giving them
a maximum of control over your screen. ActiveX technology
enables web sites to invoke programs to run on your machine.

Linux is more secure because it does not support this philosophy.
You control your computer. There is a virtual firewall between you
and remote sites. There can be no "drive-by" install of software
because the hooks into your system do not exist. It is a difference
of philosophy.

The popular saying is "Windows is susceptible to more malware
because it is the most popular OS" I firmly believe that it is
popular, in part, because of this susceptibility. A less secure system
can seem a lot more "user friendly" Sad but true.

[mattig89ch]

think about this. the more common something is the more people know how to steal it.

because there are so many civics out there, there are more people who know how to steal them.

I haven't changed my point, just put it a different way. I will grant you, because there are more civics out there, there is less of a chance that yours will get stolen, but there are still more people who know how to.

edit: wait, hang on a sec. it has always been my understanding that linux can run activex controls just like micorsoft. your saying that its not true? and you can turn off activex by not allowing the very first one that asks you "to veiw this web page properly you need to run activex controls on your computer, click here if you would like to run activex on your computer (i'm looking at that message on my computer right now)