The G5 "64bit dream machine"

[glaston]

I'm sure some of you have heard about this, maybe experienced it.

I bought my first Mac in 2006, the G5 dual 2GHz.
All was well until late december 2008.
While encoding some clips for youtube, I came back to the fans(all 9 of them) in turbo mode with a kernel panic on CPU1.
Wouldn't reboot, took 5+ tries to even get past a black screen.
Once it booted it froze up within 10 mins, repeatedly.

After searching the web I found that hundreds of other people with the same machine were having the same problem.
With more and more cases everyday.

Next I tried resetting the PROM and NVRAM.
Same thing.
I finally found a workaround on the web.
It consisted of heating up the mainboard at the lower front with a hair dryer.
That allows it to boot, but then you have to disable 1 CPU inside OSX or it freezes within 10 mins.
Every time!
My apple support contract expired 3 or so months prior to this.
After calling apple I found that they refuse to acknowledge this.
Even though their support boards are filled with threads of the same problem.
They refuse to even acknowledge there's 1 case of this.
What's worse(and this is no lie) that when you go to their boards and talk about the fact that they refuse to hear this, they delete your threads/posts.
People who've gone to an apple store and had their machines looked at are told that the logic board is bad and possible 1 or both CPU's.
They want $600 for the logic board and $500 per CPU to fix this.
And labor costs of course.
They want $40 just to put a diagnostic CD in the drive to test it.

There's a white paper by IBM that explains why this happens.
Basically, the integrated chips on the board have a different heat tolerance than the board itself.
Which results in micro cracking of the ball grid array that connects the IC's to the board.
To overcome this problem, apple created a technique where there's an "underfill" between the chip and the board that keeps the chip secure.
What this means is that they glued the chip to the board in addition to soldering in the ball grid array.
If that fails they also put 2 spring loads to keep constant pressure on the chips so they don't pull away from the board.
This is a duct tape solution through and through.
The IBM paper explains that without these 2 duct tape solutions, that the G5 machines have a life expectancy of a fraction of what constitutes a reasonable time period.
Because the G5 chips generate so much heat that they warp the chips and the board(which have different heat tolerances) which results in the solder balls on the ball grid array to collapse and/or move.
That's why there's 9 fans in the chassis, and models above 2GHz have an extensive liquid cooling system.

Last week my G5 quit booting altogether.
So I'm now the proud owner of a $4,000 aluminum doorstop with an apple logo on it.
And apple is putting all their effort into damage control rather than fixing peoples machines.

[reed9]

I'll add this to one of the many reasons I boycott apple products.

[dalinux_n00bie]

And people wonder why I hate apple....

[techieMoe]

I don't hate Apple, but I've had my fair share of hardware issues with them in the past. However, by and large the Apple computers I used had significantly less issues than their PC equivalents and when they did break down my AppleCare warranty took care of them in a reasonable amount of time for free. These were consumer desktops and laptops however. I've never owned one of their higher-end workstations.

[glaston]

I don't hate Apple, but I've had my fair share of hardware issues with them in the past. However, by and large the Apple computers I used had significantly less issues than their PC equivalents

Those are also my sentiments exactly.
During the time period that my applecare was active I had to have the display, superdrive, bluetooth Mighty Mouse and GPU replaced.
The only gripe I had was that they insisted I send the display in for repair twice before they replaced it outright.
But they sent me a box with 2nd day air shipping prepaid, and had it back to me in 3 days overall.
The replacement was next day.
They sent a guy to my house to replace the superdrive and GPU because I live 3 hours from the nearest genius bar.

I can't believe they are allowing this to go on though.
I like Apple software very much though!
OSX, Final Cut Studio.
Apple apps are clean looking with a sleek streamlined interface and visual appeal, and since they're so integrated with OSX they work well.
I really like the way OSX operates.
It's Unix core is great.
I wish there was another option for a solid system built on a *nix base that had commercially supported design/media applications built for it.
There's Hackintosh that runs on generic x86 hardware, but it's future is uncertain.
Although some of the open source options like Gimp and Blender are good, they aren't the same as having PhotoshopCS3 and Cinema4D or Maya.
There's Linux versions of Maya and C4D but they're cost prohibitive.

I was also very happy with the performance of the machine when it ran as it should.
It was 64bit, with 4GB of RAM, 512MB video memory with dual DVI heads that could power dual HD displays.
A 1GHz FSB gave it speedy throughput.
I can't tell you how much I miss that machine.
Going back to a 1.6GHz *single* P4 with 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 80GB IDE drive is very depressing.

The only things that are compatible are 1x120GB-WD-USB2.0 drive, 1x300GB Maxtor firewire drive, my wacom tablet and shuttle device.

Macdrive has been a big help because I don't have to dump all the data to be able to have access to the freespace on these external drives.
Not to mention all the archived footage.
Which is encoded with Apples ProRes422HQ codec that was new to Final Cut Studio 2 and of course it's proprietary.
So all that footage will have to be converted in order to use it in another editing app.
My 3D projects will have problems too because most of them make use of procedural shaders and lighting.
Since the maths are different between the PPC and x86/64 architectures, they won't look the same when rendered.

Can't even use my cinema display with this PC because this machine doesn't have PCI-X slots that can run the Nvidia card from the G5.
For some reason even the superdrive doesn't work except to read discs.
All burn attempts have failed with the superdrive installed in the PC.
So no more copying DVD's.

All my 3rd party (non-Apple) design apps are licensed for OSX.
Switching to the windows versions will require a significant investment.
Which isn't worth it due to the older hardware in this PC.
Luckily I have Photoshop 7 still licensed for the PC.

I bought the G5 to get me through school.
I still have 1 year left.
Which means I won't be in a position financially to repair or replace the G5 for at least that long.
It's frustrating because I thought about how I'd be backed into a corner if something went wrong like this.
And it actually happened!
I just can't believe I allowed this to happen!

[questio verum]

Man, what a sh*tty way to treat a customer! If IBM has explained and documented the problem, I would think you already have good basis for a lawsuit. Now I'm someone who thinks there are far too many lawsuits in the world already, but in this case, I think it's justified. I would look for other sources to corroborate IBM's assertion. I would also tell my story to anyone who would listen. Since they control the forum in question, and are willing to stoop to censoring your posts, it's time to post elsewhere. If it were me, I would push for a class-action suit. That's what Apple is trying to avoid through their cowardly tactics. Sounds to me like you've got a very win-able case. I'm surprised some lawyer hasn't smelled blood and organized a class-action suit already.


qv

[ewood]

Ha, right on. I'm against Intel myself, so there's no way I'll be getting any new Apple system. I do hope my 1.8 GHz G5 can survive Apple's sometimes crazy manufacturing processes..

[glaston]

Man, what a sh*tty way to treat a customer! If IBM has explained and documented the problem, I would think you already have good basis for a lawsuit. Now I'm someone who thinks there are far too many lawsuits in the world already, but in this case, I think it's justified. I would look for other sources to corroborate IBM's assertion. I would also tell my story to anyone who would listen. Since they control the forum in question, and are willing to stoop to censoring your posts, it's time to post elsewhere. If it were me, I would push for a class-action suit. That's what Apple is trying to avoid through their cowardly tactics. Sounds to me like you've got a very win-able case. I'm surprised some lawyer hasn't smelled blood and organized a class-action suit already.

Those of us who are affected by this and haven't decided to give in and pay to have the hardware we already payed for work again have taken refuge at the Macworld forums.
The administration there has been very welcoming to us all.
Several people there have made attempts to contact consumer rights groups and lawyers for this issue.
One of the lawyers who was receptive initially, asked to not be contacted further because he couldn't cope with the volume of complaints related to this issue.
We've compiled a list of machine serial numbers affected by this issue also.
Being a corporate body, Apple has weighed its options an chose the path that stands to cost them the least.
Which is why they're focusing on damage control as opposed to fixing the problem.
They have to know that they're losing alot of customers by doing this, but must believe they would lose even more by addressing the issue formally.
If they admit that they allow their products to go into production with an unknown lifespan, potential new customers will think twice.
As it is now, they're losing mainly those people who've been affected by this issue but aren't so dug into apple products that they have no other choice but to buy apple again.
It's a mini-monopoly.
When you use Apple hardware, you're also using Apple software.
And since Apple software (at least it's line of pro-apps) don't run on anything but OSX, switching to different hardware becomes cost prohibitive due to the lack of software options.
This is why they're trying their hardest to rid the world of the Hackintosh option.
It's currently the only threat they face to their mini-monopoly.
They claim it's because they can't control the quality of the hardware that OSX runs on.
But it's really because it gives people another choice, that reduces the cost of ownership on Apple software by over half.
People aren't limited to Apple certified hardware, which on average costs twice what it's nearest generic option costs.
Apple hardware is now no different than cheap PC hardware.
If you search the web you'll find wide spread claims of Apple hardware failing on a massive level all across it's range of products.
From the Mac Mini to the latest high end Mac-Pros.

Right after I got my G5 I asked Apple why they don't sell propoganda like shirts and hats at the apple store.
The rep told me it was because things like that fade and wear out fast.
And Apple doesn't want its logo on things that degrade so quickly.
I have shirts and hats that are still in good shape since I bought them 10 years ago.
But my very expensive Apple workstation is totally non-functional after barely over 3 years of use.
And I babied that thing.
Always kept it dust free, updated, always shut it down when I wouldn't be using it for any length of time.
So I wonder if Apple is gonna start selling shirts and hats now that it's abandoned its policy of having its logo on things that break down quickly!?