XP MBR Boffed. can Linux or grub help?

[WaxyChicken]

Alright....
what i did and where i'm at first:
upgraded my hardware, including a new SATA drive.
Started the computer, removed bad drivers and installed the updated drivers.
got everything perfect (yes, windows has no problem at all seeing the sata)
ghosted the IDE single partition drive to the SATA drive.

i can boot to the boot.ini on my IDE drive and from there boot to either windows on IDE or SATA.
booted to sata windows, edited registry so that SATA windows and IDE windows both see the drive they are on as C:\ (so that they don't access files across drives by mistake.)
- IDE boots to IDE-harddrive\windows, IDE windows sees IDE drive as C:\
- SATA boots to SATA-harddrive\windows, SATA windows sees SATA drive as C:\

But then i found the stumper.
because win XP builds the MBR during install based on weather you have IDE drive or SATA drive, i am unable to boot just from the sata hard drive alone because the MBR contains IDE drivers and not SATA drivers.


...... i hate windoze..... it's member is both micro and soft.......

found a copy of winxp sp2
did winnt32.exe /cmdcons but it installed the recovery console to the IDE drive instead of to the SATA drive.

did a fixboot but, even though i was logged into the sata\windows and specified the sata drive, it fixed the boot for the ide\windows so it had no effect.

so i removed the recovery console, rebooted, during the boot process i removed the IDE drive. sata\windows never knew there was an IDE drive and it wasn't listed in My Computer. (just had it in long enough to get past the boot menu)

i tried winnt32.exe /cmdcons now that it never found the IDE drive it says
"No valid system partitions were found. setup is unable to continue"

can't find the partition even though windows is running on it?
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....................... ..

Is there a linux tool i can use to boot my xp?

WinXP SP2
4 gb ram
60GB IDE FAT32
465GB SATA FAT32
bare bones DOS for accessing files outside of windows
NO XP RESTORE DISK AVAILABLE but i do have SP1 i386 install folder that i THINK is still good. A lot of things i can't use it for because of version check)

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="SATA1 Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /bootlog /usepmtimer
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="PIDE1 Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /bootlog /usepmtimer
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\="SATA-DOS"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\="PIDE-DOS
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\CMDCONS\BOOTSE CT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

(please don't preach to me about why i should use NTFS. i have no winXP disk to access a NTFS command prompt if windows crashes. And don't ***** to me about using a Micro and Soft tool when i am not as smart as you guys and can't figure out Linux.)

[rokytnji]

You can try using Super Grub Disk Homepage to repair Windows MBR without a recovery disk. It has a option for repairing Windows Boot Loader.

[rokytnji]

Another you could look at is Bootdisk.Com

[Lostfarmer]

You post :

But then i found the stumper.
because win XP builds the MBR during install based on weather you have IDE drive or SATA drive, i am unable to boot just from the sata hard drive alone because the MBR contains IDE drivers and not SATA drivers.

The MBR boot code will be the same for all hdd's , be it IDE or SATA. There is a hdd ID # between the boot code and partiton table and should be different for each hdd. The Sata drivers will be needed once XP it self starts to load and basicly like any other driver software. Look at site below and see if it points you on how to install the sata drvers after XP is loaded, post #6. It is likely for a different motherboard but it should still work.
dv5000t - install SATA drivers after windows install - Notebook Forums and Laptop Discussion

i can boot to the boot.ini on my IDE drive and from there boot to either windows on IDE or SATA.

That would lead me to think that the sata drivers may not be needed and it is a problem with the HDD ID # stored in the MBR and XP's registry. What is the exact error or symptom when trying to boot only with the sata hdd ?

i tried winnt32.exe /cmdcons now that it never found the IDE drive it says
"No valid system partitions were found. setup is unable to continue"

If I'm reading correctly, after you get to the boot.ini menu, you remove the IDE hdd ? (very bad idea) if so that error would be expected. Cmdcons will try to install on the hdd with the boot files, but you removed it.

edited registry so that SATA windows and IDE windows both see the drive they are on as C:\ (so that they don't access files across drives by mistake.)

would like to know just what you edited ? May also lead to the fix.

And don't ***** to me about using a Micro and Soft tool

Sometime you have no other option.

[WaxyChicken]

tried Super Grub Disk Homepage. no effect from either install. i think it has something to do with the boot sector being on one drive while the boot to be repaired is on a separate physical drive. grub keeps writing to the boot sections of SATA to the boot.ini. but i can't access that boot.ini because the drive won't boot that far.

i'll check the other site later.

That would lead me to think that the sata drivers may not be needed and it is a problem with the HDD ID # stored in the MBR and XP's registry. What is the exact error or symptom when trying to boot only with the sata hdd ?

it never reaches the registry to post the boot.ini boot menu. that comes after selecting the OS you want. currently, when telling bios to boot from the sata, it acts like it has no hard drive even though the post screen says it's found.
a boot from the IDE with a boot.ini arrow to the SATA saying "boot this OS" is not a problem though.

If I'm reading correctly, after you get to the boot.ini menu, you remove the IDE hdd ? (very bad idea) if so that error would be expected. Cmdcons will try to install on the hdd with the boot files, but you removed it.

exactly what i did. as soon as the IDE went idle because it switched to the SATA i yanked the ribbon (left the power cable to not short the drive). no damage to the system was done. XP looked for drives during boot, no problems were found and no IDE was found in the My Computer. XP never knew it had the drive, or that it the drive was removed.

(In the registry to adjust drive letters, I ) would like to know just what you edited ? May also lead to the fix.

here you go:ww w. petri. co. il/change_system_drive_letter_in_windows_xp.htm (have to cript it. i'm under 15 post anti-troll rule)
the problem exsisted prior to this tweek, and this tweak allowed me to make it so that
ide\windows booted and sees IDE = C:\ SATA=X:\
sata\windows booted and sees SATA = C:\ IDE=D:\
this was done safely because, prior to this edit, both drives were exact clones. however temp files and shortcuts were accessing across the drives causing crashes.

(banging your head again to learn linux..) Sometime you have no other option.

and that some time keeps creeping nearer and nearer.

(ps: wow. i didn't know that the p-word for 'faith based sermon' was blocked on this forum. hahahaha that's funny.)

[rokytnji]

Last Stab in the dark for me cuz I am not Windows savvy.

Ultimate Boot CD - Overview

[WaxyChicken]

Ok..... this is weird.

when i first cloned the drive with Norton Ghost 14 i told it to 'resize the new
partion' in the process.

yesterday, trying all sorts of tolls and links and banging my head against the wall
(even copping the first &h0040 hex of logical drives, overwrighting, restoring,
etc...)

i noticed something.... Even though i told norton ghost to use the entire drive in
the new partition it was ghosting to, only about 460 of 500GB was showing up.
granted, MBR and other fat32 information takes up space, but not 40GB of space!

so i had a thought.

i used easeus partion master pro to resized my partition DOWN to only about
160gb and restarted... EURIKA!!!

at 160 GB the cluster size was rewritten at 16.
somewhere over that size cluster size is written at 32. (bytes?)


anyway - i sized it down to 160gb and it booted up.
i then resiezed it again with that tool (this time to 375gb) and it wrote the new
cluster size at 32.

and it still boots.

apparently, norton ghost, even though it resized the partiton, made some sort of
glitch with the boot cluster sizes wich easeus fixed!!!

i still can't get the full drive partitioned as fat32, don't know why, so i have about
93GB unpartioned space showing up. which is still a total of 460 something GB.

apparently i need new partition tools to get all 500 available.

norton ghost boffed it.
easeus can't do past ~375GB. (can't get past the 32 cluster size and reach the allowed 64?)

what else is out there?

hum.... then again, maybe i'll use the extra space to try and learn linux.

BTW, i got more answers here than on any windows forum. guess a lot of us windows users tend to be dumb with this kinda stuff. :P

THANKS GUYS! it's your help that led me to the right answer.

[rokytnji]

For Formatting Partitions I keep a Linux Live CD called

News

By the way, it can clone to.

[Lostfarmer]

Glad to see you have it fixed, but do not know how we really helped. The Thanks is appreciated.

at 160 GB the cluster size was rewritten at 16.
somewhere over that size cluster size is written at 32. (bytes?)

The 16 or 32 is the number of sectors (512 bytes per sector) that is in 1 cluster. With a 32 cluster size a text file saved to hdd with only "HI" will take up 32*512=16384 bytes of hdd space. I would never have a partition of that size. Would have partitions for XP/storage/photos/music ect. Every one does have there own ideas, is one way better , likely not.

[WaxyChicken]

here's how you helped:

rokytnji: i used Super Grub to add a boot menu... it didn't work. that tought me that the MBR wansn't exactly the problem.

rokytnji: thus i was able to discount the items on bootdisk.com.

however, the items on bootdisk.com also mentioned something about partition resizing tools.... that sorta stuck in the back of my head.

LostFarmer: "the mbr should be the same for all hdd."... that made me compare the hex code of my logial drives from each physical drive. i found a discrepency in the &h0...0020 range. i used tools i found from Rokytnji's Ultimate Boot CD link to edit the sata to match the ide.... it actualy began the boot process then failed. i loaded up DOS and took a look at the directory - only about 10MB in space and only a few files - thus why it couldn't complete the boot after the edit. BUT IT STARTED to boot. (it actualy said ntloader missing! Major progess!)

restored the sata fat from backup and got thinking....

hum.... why would the fat's not match at the first &h0...20 area but match after that... why would changing that reduce the size to smaller than the original clone that i copied it from... hum....

because something boffed the partition information for the boot file locations...

but what did i do that fooled with the fat info for the boot files?....

wait...i didn't do it... a tool did... but it was doing this sience i cloned an exact copy...

AH HA!!! NOT an exact copy! I RESIZED during the clone!

then 10 mins of playing around and bingo. it all just snapped into place.

resize down back below the 32 - boot.
resize back up to the 32 - boot.

one tool fixed the glitch made by the other.

and so that's how you guys helped.

i now found out that even Nortion Partion Magic 8 says it's not good for fat32 sizes over 300GB. and i used Norton Ghost to resize past 300GB. (see the pattern?)

would never have a partition of that size. Would have partitions for XP/storage/photos/music ect.

the 80gb ide i'm coming off of is full. and i mean FULL. even when i deleted all items i don't use i only freed up 3gb of space... which quickly began to shrink because of my hobbies. so i'm beginning to get parrinoid about free space.

and as far as partitioning.... i never had a hard drive crash without taking partitions with it.
i always seem to get past the software crashes (my 80gb was from Win98a that has been through upgrade after upgrade after customizing, etc... etc.. - i am that used to resolving OS crashes.)

it's when the Smart fails or the HDD onboard controler dies or the hardware just gets boffed in general that i'm screwed. and no data recovery software can recover from platters that don't turn or an arm that doesn't swing.

My entire /Windows directory can get erased and i can still recover to exactly where i am now thanks to having /DOS mode. (which is why i hate NTFS - havn't found DOS compatibility)

note to self: boot win98 dos and check 300gb fat32 compatibility