why we need Wine

[benlyboy]

Wine is vital to the future of Linux.

I say this not because I think that you should be able to run all windows apps. There are many great open source apps out there that have been built up over the last few year. Many of these can hold there own against the best of those available for Windows, and in a lot of cases they have been given the ability to save projects in a format that will enable you to open and work on the project later using a Windows app.

The way I see it, it's not these big apps that need to be run on Wine but the little ones. It is a fact that more and more we are using our computers to update or install software on other systems. Like MP3 players, cameras, and navigation systems, just to mention a few, and then there are other specialty programs like one a bank my give you to access your accounts. These are the apps that people miss when they try to move to Linux. I for one do 90% of my work and play on a Linux machine, but have to keep a windows box around just to update my tom tom sad really. I believe that over the next few years the home computer will be interfaced with other system more often than it is today.

So if Linux wants any chance of taking a share in the home PC OS market it has to run these apps. In an ideal world there would be a Linux version of these apps, but thats unlikely to happen any time soon. So Wine is the best chance that Linux has to be able to run these apps .

I think that if Wine was up to running all these apps then Linux then who knows maybe windows would need a Linux emulator to run Linux apps

[oz]

Welcome to the forums!

I've personally never used or installed WINE on a Linux box, and I don't dual boot between Linux and Windows, so I suppose that not everyone needs WINE. Still I agree that it would be helpful to some if Linux had an equivalent for every Windows app that exists, or WINE could run all Windows applications. I personally prefer to stay clear of Windows apps whenever possible, though.

[schwim]

Wine is vital to the future of Linux.

I completely agree. Well, you need to add three words:

The eradication of Wine is vital to the future of Linux.

There. All better.

In my incredibly humble, biased and ignorant opinion, Wine is a crutch, and a poor one at that. With success rates that would make a cancer patient cringe, it's clear that it will never be the go-to app for linux users that should be running Windows.

As long as there is a Windows emulator(go ahead and say it isn't an emulator. It's cute when people say that) that gives people the false hope of having a working Windows environment in their linux install, there will be less drive to actually create apps that work in linux.

I view the existence of Wine as being proof that those linux users with it installed need Windows. Of all the open source projects that died and went away, I find it sad that Wine wasn't within their ranks. It does nothing but detract from true linux progress and development.

thanks,
json

[rokytnji]

Sigh, I still can't tune a motorcycle engine with Linux. Hopefully waiting.

[benlyboy]

mmm maybe you missed the point in my post...

I agree that using windows apps where there is a Linux app available is nuts.
I would never use a windows app to do office work, video editing, photo editing, watching movies, listing to music or many many other things that can be done with Linux apps, I even use apps that have some way to go to be a match for the windows equivalent. I hope by supporting these apps they may in time grow into truly great programs, as many before them have.

My point was that there will always be (at least in the foreseeable future) one reason why people don't switch over to Linux as there only OS. That is that nothing that you buy will work with it. Let me give a example that I personally have had to deal with. I own a Tom Tom GPS that use a program called “Tom Tom home” to update the system with new maps and the like. This is not a big app and as it is only use to update the Tom Tom, it is very unlikely that a Linux version will ever be written. It is unrealistic to think that these manufacturers will start to put a Linux version on there disks any time soon. Some of these manufacturer still don't include apps for Mac, and there are a lot more of them around than Linux systems.

By the way Tom Tom home doesn't work in Wine the program runs but it is unable to detect that tom tom when it is plugged in. This make it useless, so like many others I can not say good bye to windows completely.

I see a Wine that works well as a bridge that will allow people to cross over to Linux, until Linux is big enough to stand on it's own.

[Rubberman]

Why we need Wine: Well, a nice pasta really cries out for a good bottle of red wine, IMO. Oh, you meant the computer "Wine Is Not an Emulator" program? Sorry!

My not-so-humble opinion, and comments on some of the other comments here...

1. Most Windows applications are total dren. They are written as quickly as possible to make as much $$ as possible in the shortest period of time. They are buggy, limited, and overpriced at any price.
2. Many Linux applications are total dren. The difference between Windows applications and Linux applications is that with the LInux ones, I am much more likely to get access to the source code so I can fix the ones that do what I really need, plus the price is usually right, around 0, though for the ones that provide real utility and are well-written I do contribute to the project an amount equivalent to what I think the program is worth to me.
3. With a few exceptions, there are LInux equivalents to almost every Windows application. Some are better, some are not so good, most are pretty close. In my case, there are a couple of exceptions. Two of those are major applications that won't run in Wine, so I run them in a Windows XP virtual machine on my Linux system. One is my stock/options trading software from Fidelity. Interestingly enough, their back-end trading systems are all running on either big-iron Unix boxes, or Linux blades. The other is the Sparx Enterprise Architect software engineering tool. It is the best enterprise class requirements gathering, PLM, UML, MDA tool I have found, and at an order-of-magnitude or two cheaper than competing products from IBM, et al. It is worth the price and necessity to run Windows to have its capabilities. Even so, the data repositories all live on my Linux systems. Unfortunately, to build Windows applications for my clients, I also have Vistual Studio installed.
4. There are some nice freeware tools for Windows that do run under Wine, and some payware tools that I like that don't have equivalents, but do run under Wine. These are tools I used or purchased for Windows a long time ago, but still use them, such as Quick Par 0.9.1, the DVD authoring tool, TMPGEnc DVD Author, and Adobe's Framemaker.

So, of all my business applications, software development tools, and other utilities, I am only using 3 in Windows now: Enterprise Architect, Fidelity Active Trader Pro, and Visual Studio. And of the rest under Wine I am only using Framemaker (occasionally), DVD Author (occasionally), and Quick Par (frequently). Absolutely everything else is a native Linux application ranging from bit-torrent clients, compilers, debuggers, IDE's (Eclipse), news readers, email, accounting, vpn clients and server, remote desktop management, IM, skype, audio/video players, video processing, photo processing, etc.

In summary, if there are any Windows software product companies out there that want my $$ now and in the future, they are going to need to produce 1st class products for the Linux environment. I'm not buying anything any longer that is only available for Microsoft operating systems, either personally or for my business.

[hazel]

OK, Rubberman. If you had a TomTom that needed updating, how would you do it? Because it seems to me that this is the crux of Benlyboy's post. Of course most of the things that Windows does can be done better in Linux - we all know that - but this user has to do this one specific thing and nobody has given him an answer yet.

[Rubberman]

Well, I have a Garmin Nuvi. Similar to the TomTom. You are right in that some of their tools have to run in windows, though I have been able to use a VirtualBox VM to do updates. If you have an iPhone or iPod, you are in a similar situation where you either need a Windows or Mac system to update, which is one of the reasons why I boycott a lot of those products. Until enough people vote with their pocketbooks (in a negative manner) and let the companies that sell these products that they are losing significant business by being so narrow in their support options, things won't change for the better. Every few months I send a letter or email to executives of those companies whose Windows-only products I do use, encouraging them to change their ways, and threaten to take my business elsewhere as soon as feasible if they don't. I know, these missives probably end up in the bit bucket, but as the old saying goes about the squeeky wheel...

[oz]

I really like the way lots of devices can now have their firmware upgraded using any web browser, while running any OS. I just upgraded the firmware on 4 wireless routers and 2 wired routers a couple of days ago using Linux, and had no problems at all.

Hopefully, this will happen with more devices in the future.

[rokytnji]

And me. Most 1% Bikers don't even know how to turn on and run a computer. Let alone convince a company that sells software and hardware only ported for WINDOWS. Heck they don't even offer a Mac version either. And these tools are monopolised when you try to find a alternative. It is not a big priority I guess because of the specialised market.

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