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Originally Posted by Dapper Dan Still compiling having worked my way through several tank traps and clusters of razor wire... xulrunner takes longer to compile than Gnome! I quite like ...
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  1. #21
    Linux Enthusiast Bemk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    Still compiling having worked my way through several tank traps and clusters of razor wire... xulrunner takes longer to compile than Gnome!
    I quite like the fact that OOo has a fork now, which isn't dependent of Oracle. I think the same should happen with Virtualbox. It isn't in trouble, since Oracle seems to like this.

    Open source software shouldn't belong to a company but to the community and get the support of a community, both in source and in ways the user feels it.

  2. #22
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    Open source software shouldn't belong to a company but to the community
    Well it's a very beautiful picture, but how do the developpers get paid and earn a living ? How do companies employing developpers working on OSS generate revenue to pay these developpers ? Sun's software business model satisfied everybody as every one could get and use Sun software gratis, the result is that Sun has been described by the same community they satisfied as a 'money losing company', and Sun ended up in Oracle's portfolio. Same reasoning for MySQL. Do you think that most developpers of OSS do so in their spare time ? No. I could not retrace the reference unfortunately but I read a few weeks ago that 80% of OSS developpement are done by company employed developpers for that particular task. OSS code by nature is already open to the community according to different licenses, so there is no litigation here. And OpenOffice in particular is already governed by an elected board, see council.oppenoffice.org .There's nothing more to ask to the OOO project.

    Cheers !
    0 + 1 = 1 != 2 <> 3 != 4 ...
    Until the camel can pass though the eye of the needle.

  3. #23
    Trusted Penguin Dapper Dan's Avatar
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    I got really annoyed with trying to install from source as there were just too many issues. I got stuck on xulrunner-nss and could never find my way around it. So instead, I edited the Pkgfile from CRUX contrib for openoffice to reflect Libreoffice. After some tweaking, I was able to get it installed from the source .rpm package...



    The Pkgfile looked like this:
    Code:
    # Description: full featured cross platform office suite (binary)
    # URL: http://www.documentfoundation.org
    # Maintainer:
    # Packager: dapperdan
    # Depends on: mesa3d xorg-libxaw xorg-libxcursor xorg-libxft xorg-libxinerama xorg-libxi
    
    name=libreoffice
    version=3.2.99.1
    release=1
    source=(http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/testing/LO_3.3.0-beta1_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz)
    
    build() {
        cd en-US*/RPMS
        for i in *.rpm; do
            rpm2targz $i
            tar xzf ${i%.*}.tar.gz
        done
    
        mkdir -p $PKG/usr/lib/libreoffice
        mv opt/libreoffice*/* $PKG/usr/lib/libreoffice
        cd $PKG/usr/lib/libreoffice
        ln -sf basis3.1 basis-link
    
        mkdir -p $PKG/usr/bin
        ln -sf /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice $PKG/usr/bin/soffice
        ln -sf /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/spadmin $PKG/usr/bin/spadmin
    
        # install fancy desktop files
        mkdir -p $PKG/usr/share/applications
        cd share/xdg/
        for i in *.desktop; do
            sed '/Exec/s/libreoffice\.org3/soffice/' $i > $PKG/usr/share/applications/$i
        done
        sed '/Exec/s/libreoffice\.org3-printeradmin/spadmin/' printeradmin.desktop > $PKG/us
    
        # icons
        cd $SRC/en-US*/RPMS/desktop-integration
        rpm2targz libreoffice3.3-freedesktop-menus-3.3-9526.noarch.rpm
        tar xzf libreoffice3.3-freedesktop-menus-3.3-9526.noarch.tar.gz
        mkdir -p $PKG/usr/share/mime
        cp -r usr/share/mime/* $PKG/usr/share/mime
        mkdir -p $PKG/usr/share/icons
        cp -r usr/share/icons/hicolor $PKG/usr/share/icons
    
        # remove junk files and dont care about return values
        {
            find $PKG \(\
                -iname '*readme*' -o \
                -iname '*changelog*' -o \
                -name '*TODO*' -o \
                -iname '*news*' -o \
                -iname '*license*' -o \
                -iname '*credits*' \
             \) -exec rm -rf '{}' \;
            rm -rf $PKG/usr/lib/libreoffice/share/xdg
        } || true
    }
    Last edited by Dapper Dan; 10-01-2010 at 04:52 AM.
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  4. #24
    Linux Enthusiast Bemk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmset View Post
    Well it's a very beautiful picture, but how do the developpers get paid and earn a living ? How do companies employing developpers working on OSS generate revenue to pay these developpers ? Sun's software business model satisfied everybody as every one could get and use Sun software gratis, the result is that Sun has been described by the same community they satisfied as a 'money losing company', and Sun ended up in Oracle's portfolio. Same reasoning for MySQL. Do you think that most developpers of OSS do so in their spare time ? No. I could not retrace the reference unfortunately but I read a few weeks ago that 80% of OSS developpement are done by company employed developpers for that particular task. OSS code by nature is already open to the community according to different licenses, so there is no litigation here. And OpenOffice in particular is already governed by an elected board, see council.oppenoffice.org .There's nothing more to ask to the OOO project.

    Cheers !
    Companies can provide the OSS, and if they do I don't mind, as long as the OSS is a community product and actually is the property of the community.
    If I were to make a product in my spare time, and some company would pick it up, providing it to other companies and offering support, I'd be happy, though when I were to make a product and the same company would pick it up and take the project away from me, I'd be far from happy.

    Companies can provide support for software they don't own, which actually happens all the time in business. If a company like oracle would pick up a product of mine to provide to their clients (which probably won't happen), I'd be very happy because it helps spread the usage of my product. If they took it over though and would kick me from my own project, I would go see a lawyer.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bemk View Post
    Companies can provide the OSS, and if they do I don't mind, as long as the OSS is a community product and actually is the property of the community.
    If I were to make a product in my spare time, and some company would pick it up, providing it to other companies and offering support, I'd be happy, though when I were to make a product and the same company would pick it up and take the project away from me, I'd be far from happy.

    Companies can provide support for software they don't own, which actually happens all the time in business. If a company like oracle would pick up a product of mine to provide to their clients (which probably won't happen), I'd be very happy because it helps spread the usage of my product. If they took it over though and would kick me from my own project, I would go see a lawyer.
    The source code for OpenOffice had ALWAYS belonged to Sun. Release the source code for people to use and modify does NOT magically transfer ownership from Sun to the 'other person'.

    When Oracle bought Sun, they bought the very same rights to that source code. What Oracle wants to do with it is purely their business and not the community's. If Oracle suddenly chose to revoke the LGPL3 and make OpenOffice closed and proprietary, no one, not even the FSF, can stop them because they OWN the rights.

  6. #26
    Linux Enthusiast Bemk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    The source code for OpenOffice had ALWAYS belonged to Sun. Release the source code for people to use and modify does NOT magically transfer ownership from Sun to the 'other person'.

    When Oracle bought Sun, they bought the very same rights to that source code. What Oracle wants to do with it is purely their business and not the community's. If Oracle suddenly chose to revoke the LGPL3 and make OpenOffice closed and proprietary, no one, not even the FSF, can stop them because they OWN the rights.
    But if we look at the Linux kernel for example, even if Linus would want to make the kernel proprietary, he couldn't because there are too many contributers who own their own code, who will probably refuse to make their code proprietary.

    If all of the code in OOo belongs to Oracle, it is in my opinion a bad thing as it isn't fully open as Oracle can do as it wishes. Making a community based fork, evolving based on contributions by multiple companies and other contributers, it makes the product much more open as it would require far much more effort to change the license, keeping the source open, even if Oracle would make OOo proprietary.

  7. #27
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    I think the beauty of it is this (my own thoughts here)...
    Even if the code were to become proprietary, which is unlikely, there are enough devs that already have it. They could actually just use the code as a base to start a completely new, completely open version of the same project.

    LibreOffice, I think, will be a good jump forward for OSS.
    Jay

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  8. #28
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    jayd512 and Etna are both right.

    Code:
    he couldn't because there are too many contributers who own their own code, who will probably refuse to make their code proprietary
    This is not true. When you contribute to an OSS project, you do so according to terms and conditions that the owner of the project impose, and you can't claim ownership of the contributed code. If you do not agree with these terms and conditions, you cannot contribute code. For example, if you want to contribute code according to a GPL license to a project with an Apache style one, your contribution will be rejected, as the Apache license does not require that modified binaries be distributed with the modified source.

    On this very forum, if you don't agree that any code you help others with may be used by any as he wills, you should not do it.

    OSS projects are owned projects, like proprietary ones, the main difference is that they are open.
    0 + 1 = 1 != 2 <> 3 != 4 ...
    Until the camel can pass though the eye of the needle.

  9. #29
    Linux Enthusiast Bemk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmset View Post
    jayd512 and Etna are both right.

    Code:
    he couldn't because there are too many contributers who own their own code, who will probably refuse to make their code proprietary
    This is not true. When you contribute to an OSS project, you do so according to terms and conditions that the owner of the project impose, and you can't claim ownership of the contributed code. If you do not agree with these terms and conditions, you cannot contribute code. For example, if you want to contribute code according to a GPL license to a project with an Apache style one, your contribution will be rejected, as the Apache license does not require that modified binaries be distributed with the modified source.

    On this very forum, if you don't agree that any code you help others with may be used by any as he wills, you should not do it.

    OSS projects are owned projects, like proprietary ones, the main difference is that they are open.
    I could be wrong, but I believe that every contribution one makes, can in fact be seen as a publication. Whether or not the code is accepted is a completely different matter, but when I am to publish my code it is under the terms I decide. Based on these terms projects may or may not refuse to use my code, but the code still is mine, as I have published it.

  10. #30
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    I guess that's what we call IP !
    0 + 1 = 1 != 2 <> 3 != 4 ...
    Until the camel can pass though the eye of the needle.

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