Beyond the Open Source GNU Standardization (a rant)

[DarkPenquin]

So.. I was/am a windows user. Then a Linux user. Then a Open Solaris user followed by a PCBSD user.

All of the popular non windows OS's have the same look and feel for a desktop user because they all use what has sadly become IMO the GNU standardization of Open Source. They all use the popular desktop environments KDE,Gnome.XLDE, XFCE and any other and all applications that are GNU or GNU compatible like Compix or Konqueror. Open up Open Solaris or PCBSD and the desktop user will feel right at home with little to no learning curve. I know for PCBSD at least will run almost any Linux app you throw at it.

Yes, this can be a good thing. But I want to know where is the non windows OS that does not use these popular desktop environments? Where is the popular non windows OS that is not flooded with GNU applications? Where is the popular non windows OS that does not resemble a Linux distro? In this respect, all non windows operating systems have become "Linux Clones"

They do not exist. This is where Open Source has failed us.

I would go so far as to say this is a GNU monopoly. Don't get me wrong I Love GNU but I expect more from the Open Source community other than catering to GNU. Give me something not based on Unix/Linux in any form. Give me something radically different.

Lots of people are getting tired of Linux because of all the distros and confusion over which one is right for them. I say it's time for the Open Source community to create another different choice for those who want something other than what we have now.

I'll keep waiting and watching. Perhaps one day it may happen. In the meantime I'll keep using Windows, Linux, PCBSD and Open Solaris.

[TaZMAniac]

Where is the popular non windows OS that is not flooded with GNU applications? Where is the popular non windows OS that does not resemble a Linux distro?

Here: Tiny Core Linux, Micro Core Linux, 10MB Linux GUI Desktop, Live, Frugal, Extendable

May not be all that popular but it is very different then what you usually find.

That is all.

[DarkPenquin]

Thanks for turning me on to Tiny Core, but that's still a Linux distro. I will however check it out as I cannot resist doing so.

I'm looking for a Non Linux Non Unix non Windows OS that's supported by Open Source that does not use popular GNU applications. Think about it.. it's not out there.. shows how small the open source community really is and how few choices desktop computer users really have. There are some but not geared to the desktop user and not popular but the main thing is the Open Source community is not actively writing applications, drivers, etc for these systems and without that open source support, they will not grow.

[oz]

Hello

You can find some alternative open source operating systems that may or may not suit your needs and desires here:

Comparison of open source operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Cabhan]

I guess I'm a bit confused. What is your actual complaint?

I don't see the reign of certain popular Linux software as a problem, as long as it doesn't prevent me or anyone else from doing our own thing if we want. A fine example of this is Gnome/KDE/XFCE. Yes, those are the most popular. However, I used Fluxbox for a long while, as I wanted something more minimalist. Now I use wmii, which is even more minimalist, and entirely keyboard-driven. It is so far exactly what I want.

This is the strength of open-source software: that you can pick and choose from all sorts of things in order to create the best environment for yourself.

The same applies to GNU software. GNU is the most popular set of free software UNIX utilities. However, if for whatever reason you don't want to use them, you also have BusyBox available. You, or anyone else, is also free to implement them yourself, if you so desire.

What is your complaint against Linux and GNU software? It may well be that they can be taken into consideration and used to improve what we already have. If it's a fundamental change, absolutely nothing is stopping you from starting your own project. However, when you consider that building an operating system is VERY difficult, I don't think it's very surprising that efforts have focused more on making Linux adaptable and better than on writing lots of smaller operating systems.

[Manko10]

I fully agree with Cabhan. Imagine, there were a completely new operating system without any Unix/Linux/GNU/OS X/Windows components. What would you do with it?
First: where do you get your software from? Is there any software for this kind of platform? Surely not. Would it then be possible to compile your own software? If yes, how? For that we need a compiler. Is there any good compiler? Yes, there is GCC, probably the best C/C++ compiler ever released. But wait. It doesn't exist for our platform so we had to build it first of all. Therefore a new compiler for this platform has to be written from scratch. Provided this is done, we have the next problem: GCC is GNU, so it is not an option for us. Thus we have to keep on working on our own compiler.
Once it's finished, we try to build other non-GNU open source software, but we can't do that without making a lot of modifications since most programs aren't ANSI C but use components such as Gtk+, GlibC, whatever. We had to rebuild all that.
It would be a huge effort and it would take years to provide all the basics needed to get the new OS running. And we still have the problem that nobody is using our operating system, so we still have to heavily modify all software to run on our OS.

What is the advantage of reinventing the wheel? Wouldn't it be more meaningful to invest all that effort in improving existing software, tweaking the Linux kernel, making GNU software better?

[MASONTX]

Try Android. I recently bought an Android netbook with an ARM11 cpu. While the linux kernal is in there somewhere, Android has its own protocols, and most linux commands wont work.

[DarkPenquin]

I don't have a complaint against Linux/GNU or GNU using the Linux kernel or the Linux kernel using the the GNU tools. I have a problem with the open source community not stepping outside those Linux/GNU boundaries. Everything the open source community writes is based on GNU Linux or both. Sure there a few open source MS Windows developers as I am sure is the case with Mac. I's like to see open Source branch out more and develop some new technologies that are different and separate from all of the boundaries above.. something entirely new. A new OS based on new technology. This is where I feel the open source community could grow the most. Right now, they are only catering to existing popular platforms. Sure continue to do that, but head in new directions as well. That's about as plain as I can state the case.

Yes, Manko10

I'm speaking of an effort that would take years, 10, 20, 30 possibly. Why reinvent the wheel? Diversity. Ask wheel companies, they reinvent the wheel all the time. I call on open source to create new platforms that use new and different technology, different types of open source licenses, different operating systems and applications. This they could have been doing for the past 27 years since Richard Stallman made the open source concept a house hold name. Someone in all this time should have picked up the ball and ran with it, but mostly all we see out of open source is a bunch of supporting players.

I think the problem is there are no open source teams/projects that lend themselves to such an effort. There should be. Some of them somewhere should get organized and do something great with this talent they have. Heck, don't even write it C or anything that resembles C. Create a new language that transcends C or anything else out there. I wanna go to a PC store and see 5 different systems ( hardware wise) that are all compatible but are optimized to run on 5 different non Unix non Linux non GNU Non Windows yet Open Source operating systems. Diversity.

[ryokimball]

My first idea of a "different OS" is MenuetOS --I know some users of the forum are familiar with this Assembly-only OS. Still, this is "desktop-oriented," and then I, like MASONTX, thought of Android, where the interface and general approach idea is far different from your desktop model.

But moreover, if I understand correctly, I believe that your complaint is rather misguided; the GNU communities are largely based on desktop (or relatives-thereof) computers. When I'm hacking around with my netbook or Android phone, I'm looking to expand the usefulness of that technology --which is nigh limitless anyway. But, essentially, when you are using Linux, you are still using a PC (or PC-esque) computer, so what is being done on it is PC-esque activity.

there are, in fact, a LOT of people working on all new technologies or "reinventing the wheel" all the time, and all around you; first to my mind is a celebrity-crush of mine, Jeri Ellsworth, who makes microchips in her kitchen. Second to mind is the operating systems of the space shuttles and Mars Exploration Rover. If this is a call-to-arms, I agree; it would be nice to have revolutionary interfaces (I, myself, am in search of the keyboard's mobile replacement...) or cheaper, more-powerful versions of the CPUs and displays we already have. So, DarkPenguin, I challenge you to come up with something genuinely unique idea and bring it to fruition (I'll gladly share with you my ideas on the keyboard-replacement, if you PM me)

[jayd512]

I'd love to try it... just waiting for a chance to grab a spare machine...
MINIX