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Originally Posted by elija I thought 12.04 was an LTS? Why introduce a bold new feature into an LTS release; I guess they are no longer about stability over features. ...
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by elija View Post
    I thought 12.04 was an LTS? Why introduce a bold new feature into an LTS release; I guess they are no longer about stability over features.
    Don't know what's up with that, but I personally enjoy using distributions that are more generic in nature.

    From my own point of view, Ubuntu has always been a little too "customized" and they seem to be taking things in that direction much more so, lately.
    oz

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    Linux Engineer MASONTX's Avatar
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    Personally, I've liked Ubuntu in the past because they had features that made it easy to get wireless working, a good package manager, and you could put your frequently used icons on the desktop in the order you wanted. Recently, however, they have tried to add features I didn't really want. Perhaps I'm just set in my ways, but I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.
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    Just Joined! Randicus's Avatar
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    One problem is that Shuttleworth wants to be an innovator, but instead of his innovation being developed by a good distribution, he is trying to innovate using a garbage system like Ubuntu. If his ideas have any merit, they will only work if a quality distribution like Debian, Slackware or Red Hat takes up his ideas and modify them. Otherwise, it will only be bad Ubuntu continuing its downward spiral.

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    Linux Engineer MASONTX's Avatar
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    I disagree. I loved ubuntu 8.04 and 10.04, it is just the recent innovation that I dislike. Just because something is technically possible, doesn't mean it is a good idea. Put another way, bling or eye candy, just for its own sake is not what I want. I want truly helpful innovation that lets me get things done faster or easier, or do useful things that couldn't be done before.
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    Administrator jayd512's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASONTX View Post
    Put another way, bling or eye candy, just for its own sake is not what I want.
    Same here.
    Ubuntu is a good system when you get right down to it. A good mix of stability, customization and ease of use.
    But the recent changes that are being made to the GUI seem to be aimed at getting a few ooo's and ahh's... no true functionality.

    I'm hoping that this new HUD will bring at least some of that functionality back into the picture.
    Jay

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  7. #16
    Just Joined! Randicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASONTX View Post
    ... bling or eye candy, just for its own sake is not what I want. I want truly helpful innovation that lets me get things done faster or easier, or do useful things that couldn't be done before.
    Exactly!
    Now if only DE developers would listen to all of us who say this, we would not have the monstrosities of Unity, Gnome3 and Kde.* The majority of computer users in general, and especially GNU-Linux users, prefer function over form, but unfortunately DE developers believe they know what we should have and refuse to listen to us.
    Oh well. I am happy with my beautiful Openbox.

    * Sorry if I make Kde users angry, but I am not a fan of that bloated and slow DE.

  8. #17
    Penguin of trust elija's Avatar
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    Due to a nasty bout of Asthma, my doctor has put me on a large dose of steroid tablets. They have some interesting side effects. For example last night, I found myself half way through installing Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity on my main desktop! I genuinely don't remember starting the process. On a fairly chunky machine (Quad core i5, 16GB RAM, 1GB Nvida Graphics) it's very smooth and actually quite usable.

    It will be interesting to see if my opinion changes back when the medication wears off in a few more days! And if it does, I may have shed some light on the design desicions taken by the Gnome 3 and Unity teams *_*
    "I used to be with it, then they changed what it was.
    Now what was it isn't it, and what is it is weird and scary to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmadero View Post
    I've abandoned Unity, I gave it a year, I think that's a legitimate attempt to "get used to it", it was so dysfunctional that I left Ubuntu completely and am now using E17.
    Why should anyone have to "get used to" a DE they dislike? When it comes to pretty much any other distro, the user simply removes the desktop or wm they don't want and switches to another. Why should 'buntu be any different? Is 'buntu now compelling users to use only it's Unity desktop? Is there no option to just install something else...?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmadero View Post
    I hope Shuttleworth continues to invest in his project but, I'm afraid he's going to lose his base to Mint and other distros
    'buntu has become the victim of it's own success and that's mainly due to Shuttleworth's misconceptions and general ignorance of how the open source eco system works, how it balances itself out and how no one can remain top dog for long.

    Quote Originally Posted by oz View Post
    From my own point of view, Ubuntu has always been a little too "customized" and they seem to be taking things in that direction much more so, lately.
    'buntu is all about "the desktop experience", the rest of it is Debian Sid. Shuttleworth uses 'buntu as a platform for other apps and services - the idea is that you give the OS away and make money on the attached services (cloud, app store, etc). So far this has not worked and I think there is one fundamental reason for that which 'buntu have realised themselves in the last few years. They've been attracting the wrong kind of fanboys. Nowadays if you visit 'buntu dot com you won't see a mention of GNU/Linux or even Debian on their home page - this is because GNU/Linux users are not the target customer.

    'buntu is a marketing driven effort to turn GNU/Linux into something else entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by MASONTX View Post
    a good package manager
    'buntu uses Debian's package management system, which is dpkg/apt, everything else is just a front end (including aptitude), synaptic, etc). So I'm not sure what you're referring to there.

    Quote Originally Posted by MASONTX View Post
    Recently, however, they have tried to add features I didn't really want. Perhaps I'm just set in my ways, but I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.
    That's the problem with distribution built around a particular DE - or indeed any DE. Features you don't want are implemented and you have no choice but to accept it or move on. It goes back to what I said about GNU/Linux users not being the target consumer.

    Quote Originally Posted by MASONTX View Post
    I disagree. I loved ubuntu 8.04 and 10.04, it is just the recent innovation that I dislike. Just because something is technically possible, doesn't mean it is a good idea. Put another way, bling or eye candy, just for its own sake is not what I want. I want truly helpful innovation that lets me get things done faster or easier, or do useful things that couldn't be done before.
    So you liked the LTS releases and not those in between? Doesn't that in itself say something about the overall quality of the 'buntu releases? The last decent release I used as main OS was 6.06 - it's a distant memory now, but I remember being impressed, by it's stability and ease of install. Of course back then 'buntu was not much more than an installable Debian Sid livecd with a brown themed gnome. I used all of the 6.x, 7.x, 8.x and 9.04 releases and all had their own share of "show-stopping" bugs and problems on release. None would upgrade cleanly and reliably from one release to next and offering that to noobs via update manager as they still do is just reckless.

    Quote Originally Posted by jayd512 View Post
    But the recent changes that are being made to the GUI seem to be aimed at getting a few ooo's and ahh's... no true functionality.
    You could say the same for gnome and KDE - it's eye candy over features/functionality. In fact you could also say the same for any Windows OS after Windows 2000.

    Quote Originally Posted by elija View Post
    They have some interesting side effects. For example last night, I found myself half way through installing Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity on my main desktop!
    That confirms my suspicions that you do need to be on drugs to use some of these new fangled DEs.
    Randicus likes this.

  10. #19
    Penguin of trust elija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caravel View Post
    That confirms my suspicions that you do need to be on drugs to use some of these new fangled DEs.
    LOL yeah. And I really wish I was joking

    There are some things I really like about Unity.

    1. It feels like they are slowly deprecating the mouse control of the UI in favour of the keyboard. I think this is a good thing from a productivity point of view.
    2. It's pretty. Very pretty. Now if I could just get Emerald to compile so I could use my favourite window decorations.

    What I don't like.
    1. The position of the Window controls. Even though I've changed them around when the window is maximised they appear at the top left still
    2. The really weird overlay scrollbar

    What I am finding really hard to get used to
    1. The menu bar at the top of the screen. Mac style I believe.
    "I used to be with it, then they changed what it was.
    Now what was it isn't it, and what is it is weird and scary to me.
    It'll happen to you too."

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  11. #20
    Linux Guru Jonathan183's Avatar
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    I'll probably give it a try in 12.04 ... but this does not fill me with confidence that options will still be available ...
    That discoverability is of course entirely absent from the HUD; the old menu is still there for now, but we’d like to replace it altogether not just supplement it.

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