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Originally Posted by Miven So I head back over to my PC (dwm/mc), and used mc to scan her home dir. Glad it's working out well for you, Miven, and ...
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  1. #21
    oz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven View Post
    So I head back over to my PC (dwm/mc), and used mc to scan her home dir.
    Glad it's working out well for you, Miven, and I think mc is a perfect match for most tiling window managers!

    I'm still playing around with various tilers, and out of the dozen or so that I've tried, my favorites so far are dwm, awesome, and monsterwm. I'm typing this post from dwm and it's likely to become my default window manager, although awesome and monsterwm are very nice, too. I love the speed on all of them. Hey, note that dwm 6.1 should be released soon.

    We'll see how it goes, and good luck to you with your tiler...
    Last edited by oz; 01-11-2013 at 02:24 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Just wanted to add that due to my longevity using floating window managers. it has taken me almost 4 weeks to get my head around tiling window managers. Yesterday, I returned briefly to a floating WM (openbox), and it felt downright weird after using a tiler for these last few weeks.
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  3. #23
    Linux Engineer hazel's Avatar
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    Maybe I should try again. The only hacks I did last time round were to change some mouse and key bindings.

    I'm having a lot of problems with my mouse right now. It's an optical mouse (I don't think they make the old mechanical mice any more) and while that means that I don't have to worry about the ball clogging up, it's ridiculously sensitive. It seems to interpret most of my clicks as double clicks, which is exasperating. In Windows you could slow the mouse down, and I'm sure you can in Gnome or KDE too, but I haven't found a way to do it in plain X. It probably requires some obscure xorg utility.

    Perhaps I should switch to something like dwm that makes me use my keyboard more, but I'm so used to mousing that I'm not sure I could remember a whole lot of arbitrary mod-key combinations.
    "I'm just a little old lady; don't try to dazzle me with jargon!"

  4. #24
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    I personally like not having to worry about such things as icons, window decorations, and wallpaper selections for my minimal desktops. Of course, that stuff can be added to some tilers if a user really wants them. Most tilers also offer floating window options for those users that can't adjust to tiled windows. Overall, tiling window managers feel much more snappy in their performance, to me, and once the keyboard commands are learned, it feels more natural than reaching for a mouse all the time and moving it back and forth. I was surprised by how awkward it felt when I logged into my openbox machine the other day and had to keep moving windows around, or clicking on parts of windows that were hidden under other windows to bring them back to the top and focused.
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    Yeah. I changed pretty much every keybinding dwm came with. I've never really like mice, and I have keybindings I've been using for 15 years. ALT-Left&Right switch VTs/workspaces. That one is a given. ALT-F11 for fullscreen, but I barely need to because there is almost no decorations to get in your way.

    I also hacked about half of the subroutines and wrote my own net/cpu status monitor(with clock) in C. If you want to see it, I'll post it here. It's only 198 lines, and half of that is comments.

    Now that I have it doing exactly what I want (no more and no less) it sure stays out of my way. I use my GtkDeskMenu (GtkDeskMenu GTK-Apps.org) to pull up whatever apps I need. I tweaked xmodmap to make the menukey between ALT-R and CTRL-R to be F28, and tweaked config.h to have F28 do a `killall -SUGUSR1 deskmenu`. Works beautifully.

    That ALT-D/I (incnmaster -1/+1) thing was totally weirding me out until I figured out what it was doing. incnmaster() was broken. It would increment right out of range, and then you'd have to decrement back into range. When it's out of range, it doesn't do anything. What it's supposed to do is this:
    Code:
    void
    incnmaster(Arg *arg) {
        Client *c, *s;
        int i = 0, sn = 0;
        s = selmon->sel;
        c = selmon->clients;
    // count the clients
        while ( c ) {
            if ( c == s ) {
                sn = i;
    // a little debugging output for curiosity
                fprintf ( stderr, "selected client: %p(%s)\n"; c, c->name );
            }
            c = c->next;
            ++i;
        }
            selmon->nmaster = MAX(selmon->nmaster + arg->i, 0);
    // this keeps nmaster in range
            selmon->nmaster = MIN(selmon->nmaster, i);
            arrange(selmon);
    }
    ALT-D/I decrement and increment a var, nmaster. nmaster can vary from 0 to the number of client windows. As you increment nmaster, it changes the tiling layout so that the corresponding client window gets more space. The tile() func controls this, and is the focus of many of the patches for dwm. Obviously everybody has preferences as to how they like their tiling done. Once I stopped it from incrementing out of range, it works fine for me.

    incnmaster() is most noticeable when you have all your clients on 1 workspace. If they're all on their own workspaces, there is nothing to tile, and if you just have 2 windows to a workspace, it just swaps between horizontal and vertical split.

    Funny thing is, that in vertical split, ALT-H and ALT-L move the vertical split left and right. But in horizontal split, you're always forced to have equal split. I'm still working on that one, but it's not a big priority.

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    Linux Engineer hazel's Avatar
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    Well, I decided to try again with dwm and found something weird. My mouse behaves much better in dwm than it does in icewm. The system still occasionally reads a single click as two, but much less often. I'm talking about mouse clicks in applications, which you wouldn't expect to be influenced by the wm. If anyone can explain that, I'm all ears!

    I think it really might be worth switching wms for that alone.
    "I'm just a little old lady; don't try to dazzle me with jargon!"

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    I don't recall having mouse issues with icewm, and I used it from 1997 until last week. Does this happen with all the mice you plug in, or just the one? When was the last time you took your mouse apart and cleaned it? I've had them act weird because of gunk trapped in and under the buttons, especially when you let kids use your PC. Sometimes lint and stuff gets down in the little gears that control the wheel action and make it act funny. A new 3-button scroll mouse is probably only $10 or something. That's an option, I guess.

    dwm sits really close to libX11. There is no middle-men at all. That's why it's kinda ugly, but also why it's so fast and fun to hack. Maybe that's also why your mouse works better.

    It has a very clever array of event handlers that get called the instant an event comes through. No BS or goofing around.

    I've learned a heck of a lot about down & dirty X calls, and that very clever way dwm uses that Arg union and initialzes it in the keys[] array. I didn't even know that was possible. I have deep respect for the people who came up with the basic working code. The rest of it is all hackery.

    If you want, I could clean up my well-hacked version, tarball it, and attach it to a post here. It's only 23k bzip'd. Smaller than most jpegs.

  8. #28
    oz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven View Post
    dwm sits really close to libX11. There is no middle-men at all. That's why it's kinda ugly, but also why it's so fast and fun to hack.
    I still don't see dwm as ugly, although it may not be as pretty sitting on the desktop as is awesome window manager. That said, some of the best things that have come to me in life haven't been all that pretty when it comes right down to it.

    Another newer window manager that I've been toying around with is goomwwm. It's really a floating window manager, but with tiling and tagging abilities. There aren't many mouse options available on it at the moment, so learning the keyboard commands is a must.

    Edit: found this nice little tutorial for anyone that might want to try goomwwm:

    http://aerosuidae.net/goomwwm/tutorial
    Last edited by oz; 01-16-2013 at 02:10 PM. Reason: added tutorial info
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  9. #29
    Linux Engineer hazel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven View Post
    Does this happen with all the mice you plug in, or just the one?
    I only have one so I can't tell you.
    When was the last time you took your mouse apart and cleaned it? I've had them act weird because of gunk trapped in and under the buttons, especially when you let kids use your PC. Sometimes lint and stuff gets down in the little gears that control the wheel action and make it act funny.
    It's an optical mouse so I don't think it can be taken apart. When I had a ball mouse, I used to clean it regularly, as the ball picked up a lot of gunk. That mouse went belly-up some time ago, which is why I had to buy a new one. They don't seem to sell ball mice any more.

    A new 3-button scroll mouse is probably only $10 or something. That's an option, I guess.
    Well, if I did, it would probably be another optical mouse and I think it's that that's causing the problem.

    dwm sits really close to libX11. There is no middle-men at all. That's why it's kinda ugly, but also why it's so fast and fun to hack. Maybe that's also why your mouse works better.
    I thought it might be something like that.

    If you want, I could clean up my well-hacked version, tarball it, and attach it to a post here. It's only 23k bzip'd. Smaller than most jpegs.
    I think several of us might find that useful.
    "I'm just a little old lady; don't try to dazzle me with jargon!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by oz View Post
    I still don't see dwm as ugly, although it may not be as pretty sitting on the desktop as is awesome window manager.
    Agreed. Personally, I don't find it ugly at all, but I can see how others would. No window decorations? That's going to turn a lot of people off. No right click context menus? Ditto. Supply your own clock? Ditto.

    For me it's all fun and games.
    That said, some of the best things that have come to me in life haven't been all that pretty when it comes right down to it.
    True. Kinda like the Kardashians VS. The Boiler Room that makes heat and hot water for 200 people. Pretty+Rich+Useless+Annoying VS. Ugly+Functional+Life-Enhancing. I vote the boiler room any day. Can you imagine what would happen if you locked the Kardashians in the boiler room for a few hours. 200 people without heat and hot water I'd bet. But it sure would smell nice in there.

    Speaking of pretty, I've been playing with fonts in dwm and I'm getting segfaults. My guess is that initfont() needs some work. XCreateFontSet() and XLoadQueryFont() are deep magic to me at this time. I'll be looking into it.

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