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Hey, The title explains it all, after other people's opinions/ discussion about the topic. I found the short opinion kind of intriguing and interesting for 2 separate reasons. The first ...
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  1. #1
    Linux Newbie SL6-A1000's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Distrowatch's "Opinions: The Growing Divide"


    Hey,
    The title explains it all, after other people's opinions/ discussion about the topic.

    I found the short opinion kind of intriguing and interesting for 2 separate reasons.
    The first reason i find it interesting is because of the divide in the community and the possible outcomes that could occur the dividing factions (for better word) that are forming. My biggest concern is what will happen to the big linux players that are financially unsupported, i am talking Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch and LFS?
    All of these especially the first 2 are pretty large contributors to the entire Linux community and it would be a big loss overall if they get caught in the middle because of their design goals and philosophies.
    What i mean by this is both Debian and Slackware and the others follow design goals that are most likely not going to agree with either the Red Hat or Ubuntu camp. With the Ubuntu camp being all about becoming the next big Mac and Windows competitor and Red Hat about offering the best most reliable server/workstation environment.
    This leaves very few options 1) either stay on their current path and continue with how they are doing things or 2) be forced to follow the route of Red Hat or Ubuntu as they don't have the developers don't have the time and resources to invest to keep up with the current development pace.
    Either option leads to a reduced choice and pretty severe consequences to the linux community. Whereby we either have all current distributions but big differences between those that have a backing and those that don't OR we have just the two major players.
    ----------
    The second reason this has my interest is because it is confirming my and probably others fears/ thoughts that Linux's lack of conformity between all the Distributions is going to ultimately lead to its downfall or a reduced presence.
    Which leads me to why i suspect that at minimum FreeBSD's userbase and popularity might surpass the general Linux community as the issue raises its ugly head and comes to the foreground. This prospect won't surprise me or possibly others because people will look for the alternatives. The *BSDs have that advantage to push forward because they have the conformity by design. i.e. any *BSD derivative is 100% compatible with whatever its upstream vendor has compatibility with. What this means is that any development made or new source ported from one *BSD can pretty much be contributed back upstream without any issues or cause for concern.
    Last edited by SL6-A1000; 03-25-2013 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Linux Newbie arespi's Avatar
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    Hi

    I am not very concerned really about which linux will "survive" and wich won't. I come to think about it as a natural selection. When you think about linux servers and search for info, RH and Debian always come to the top. But strangely It is easier to find more documentation on Debian. I believe in using the tool that "just works", be it RH, Debian for servers or in my case Mageia for my desktop, and I think I am not the only one.
    I have mixed feelings about Ubuntu. It is great that it has put Linux in the public view, but somehow I don't like it, and I don't like either that many folks think linux=ubuntu. The lack of conformity as you call it lead me to look for more options and I am thankful of there is such a great quantity of choices.

  3. #3
    Linux Newbie SL6-A1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arespi View Post
    Hi

    I am not very concerned really about which linux will "survive" and wich won't. I come to think about it as a natural selection. When you think about linux servers and search for info, RH and Debian always come to the top. But strangely It is easier to find more documentation on Debian. I believe in using the tool that "just works", be it RH, Debian for servers or in my case Mageia for my desktop, and I think I am not the only one.
    I have mixed feelings about Ubuntu. It is great that it has put Linux in the public view, but somehow I don't like it, and I don't like either that many folks think linux=ubuntu. The lack of conformity as you call it lead me to look for more options and I am thankful of there is such a great quantity of choices.
    when i say conformity i mean underlying system conformity, not distributions. like ubuntu or red hat

    this topic is something you should be concerned about. what you are talking about and take for granted (choice) is what is potentially at risk. whatever happens quite possibly will change linux in more ways then one for a long time

    if you haven't read it, you should read it. so u understand what i am talking about ��

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    Linux Enthusiast cousinlucky's Avatar
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    First let me admit that I do not know anything about codes or programing! That said, as a user who used to use and like Ubuntu, I dislike their recent distros very much. My main os is PCLinuxOS gnome which has been discontinued. I like it because it is very easy for a computer no-nothing, like myself, to use it. I do not have to jump any hurdles, or go through a maze, to use any applications. I think that will always be very knowledgeable programmers comprising new and divergent Linux distros without becoming " market hungry " and overbearing!! At least I hope so!!
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    Linux Guru rokytnji's Avatar
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    if you haven't read it, you should read it. so u understand what i am talking about
    I read it at distro watch. I never concern or worry myself about things I have no control over
    like cameras on intersections.

    Whether Consort or Mate are cross compatible are out of my hands, so why worry about it?
    Whether Linux becomes popular or not ,frankly. I don't give a damn.
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    Just my opinion, that's all. I know some members take this stuff more seriously than I do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL6-A1000 View Post
    My biggest concern is what will happen to the big linux players that are financially unsupported, i am talking Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch and LFS?
    That concern reminds me of Debian's choice a while back when Canonical wanted them to join their six month release cycle. The collective sign from Debian's response was heartfelt and, I think, with good reason. Arch made a similar decision when AMD was turning out glitchy proprietary driver versions by (it seemed) the week, and dropped AMD from the repos until they got their act together. All five of those distros have strong user loyalty and support communities. My guess is, they'll just continue with X until Weyland or Mir prove a viable alternative.

    There's perhaps more concern for the hundreds of smaller based-on distros which track Fedora and Ubuntu. Will they decide to follow, knowing the switch to the new graphics will require more dev time and testing to get it right? Do they have the community resources like, say, Mint, to develop a workaround when needed?

    When KDE4 first came out, Gnome soon became a little more popular. When Gnome3 came out, Xfce became a little more popular. When Unity came out, Mint and Debian became a little more popular. Dunno what the Linux user community will decide when Weyland and Mir become defaults for Fedora and Ubuntu, if they do, but it seems any change from the way folks get used to doing things is the biggest hurdle to surmount.

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    Linux Newbie arespi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL6-A1000 View Post
    what you are talking about and take for granted (choice) is what is potentially at risk. ��
    Somehow I don't think it will be a big issue. Look what happened with Gnome 3. Some people didn't like it, so they took it and made it look like gnome 2. The greatest thing about open source is that. There will be bad, buggy implementations and there will be great, stable ones. So as I said, you just choose the one you like-need-works.

    But that is just my opinion and of course I can be wrong

  8. #8
    Linux Newbie SL6-A1000's Avatar
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    I totally understand where you guys are coming from... As long as there is choice and the distribution you use does what you want in a manner the works for you, why should it matter! Its not the be all to end all.

    I am concerned from the perspective that the more something breaks up into smaller groups especially with stuff like technology (OSs) the less resources and man power become available to each group. This is enhanced if each group becomes less compatible with one another.

    Take for example the 4 *BSDs (as i understand them reasonably well) while each individual BSD distribution and its derivatives are all compatible upstream and downstream they are only semi inter-compatible (i.e. you can't install a FreeBSD ports package straight on to NeBSD. Thus, biggest issue for them is resources and man power, because they can't inter-operate despite all being BSDs. This isn't a problem in itself but it has significantly slowed down progression of each individual BSD OS and is a large reason why a majority of them lack software support for some of the more general software (device driver support) and why they have trouble gaining a larger user base.

    In short, i can just for see Linux having the same problem for different reasons. Causing a clear distinction between those Linux Distributions which have a large backing and those that don't.

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    Linux Guru Jonathan183's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to see how this turns out, but I'll watch from the sidelines using X for GUI IceWM ... and using the CUI and the occasional DirectFB application like links It's a choice of software behind the GUI so I'd say it's less significant than choice in package managers. Options survive because they are better for a particular use case and people support them ... when they stop being a better option for any use case it's time to drop them and use something else ...
    It may be time to move on from X ... but I'm far from convinced yet

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    Linux User zenwalker's Avatar
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    OP: "The second reason this has my interest is because it is confirming my and probably others fears/ thoughts that Linux's lack of conformity between all the Distributions is going to ultimately lead to its downfall or a reduced presence."

    Hooray for non-conformity! Diversity is its strength even though the GNU/Linux community may become partitioned.
    We don't have much to worry about. She will prove a tough nut to crack.
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