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Here is what happened to someone who was dual-booting Windows 8 and Xubuntu when he did a Windows update....
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  1. #1
    Linux Engineer hazel's Avatar
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    More dirty tricks from Microsoft


    Here is what happened to someone who was dual-booting Windows 8 and Xubuntu when he did a Windows update.
    "I'm just a little old lady; don't try to dazzle me with jargon!"
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  2. #2
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    I don't think it's a dirty trick as much as it is ineptitude. MS cannot secure their product themselves, so they are trying to push the 'security features' down to the metal.

    Either way, this totally doesn't surprise me, and I'm more surprised it doesn't happen more often.

  3. #3
    Linux Engineer TNFrank's Avatar
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    This is why you don't dual boot. Dump the MicroSuck stuff and come on over to Linux full time. Once you do that and actually "Live" in Linux for a while you'll see that there's really no good reason to keep using Windows at all. Plenty of Linux programs that'll do what Windows does and IF you do need to run a Windows program well, we've got WINE and PllayonLinux to run em' with.

  4. #4
    Linux User Steven_G's Avatar
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    I can tell you what most likely happened: They are using the TPM in some way. They either have bitlocker enabled and need a BL PIN to unlock the drive on log in or they are using a virtual smart card to sign in to a VPN as their initial system log in. Win8/.1 is very, very, very picky about system requirements for the TPM and I see them make changes in the BIOS to enforce those requirements all the time. The system also probably ended up doing a MBR "repair" in the process of enforcing the system requirements. Win8 does have a tool in it for manually setting some MBR options. Namely ONE: "Set Win8 as your default OS"!

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Roxoff's Avatar
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    Hang on everyone. I think we need just a small dose of common sense here. The article says "A user who was dual-booting Xubuntu and Windows 8 has reported that ..."

    So lets get this straight... One User. Out of how many Windows 8 users? Well The Guardian thinks it's about 58 million. I have no idea, but we'll assume 60 million to make the numbers easy to look at.

    Lets assume that very few people want to dual boot - lets say 1%. So that's 600,000. Lets assume only 20% of those go with Linux for dual boot (stupid, I know, 'cos this doesn't have to be actually Linux) and that only half of them user automatic updates or even update manually... that's 6,000 installed machines.

    So we have 6,000 potential targets for this issue - we don't know who they are, or where they're based, but we do know that there is one report of this issue. That's a ratio that doesn't add up. If we had a couple of hundred reports, perhaps there's some validity to this. But in one in six thousand is statistical error. It suggests that the user reporting this has updated the BIOS/UEFI system and forgotten that they'd done it.

    If Microsoft were truly responsible, there'd be thousands of reports of this going badly wrong (and if that volume of problems are reported as time passes, then MS will end up with a class action law suit for stealing people's computers anyway). I think we can take this with just a small pinch of salt, and not go worrying about some great Microsoft conspiracy that doesn't exist.
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  6. #6
    Linux Engineer docbop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxoff View Post
    Hang on everyone. I think we need just a small dose of common sense here. The article says "A user who was dual-booting Xubuntu and Windows 8 has reported that ..."

    So lets get this straight... One User. Out of how many Windows 8 users? Well The Guardian thinks it's about 58 million. I have no idea, but we'll assume 60 million to make the numbers easy to look at.

    Lets assume that very few people want to dual boot - lets say 1%. So that's 600,000. Lets assume only 20% of those go with Linux for dual boot (stupid, I know, 'cos this doesn't have to be actually Linux) and that only half of them user automatic updates or even update manually... that's 6,000 installed machines.

    So we have 6,000 potential targets for this issue - we don't know who they are, or where they're based, but we do know that there is one report of this issue. That's a ratio that doesn't add up. If we had a couple of hundred reports, perhaps there's some validity to this. But in one in six thousand is statistical error. It suggests that the user reporting this has updated the BIOS/UEFI system and forgotten that they'd done it.

    If Microsoft were truly responsible, there'd be thousands of reports of this going badly wrong (and if that volume of problems are reported as time passes, then MS will end up with a class action law suit for stealing people's computers anyway). I think we can take this with just a small pinch of salt, and not go worrying about some great Microsoft conspiracy that doesn't exist.
    The same thing happens here how many posts from someone noob who has a problem and then <fill in blank> distro sucks, Linux sucks, everything sucks going back to Windows. They have a problem so everything is totally broken!!! They never think hummmm millions of people use this Linux and/or this distro daily what could I be doing wrong or what is it about my hardware. People are just too quick to point fingers.
    momist likes this.

  7. #7
    Linux User Steven_G's Avatar
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    Actually I didn't fix / wasn't allowed to fix / had to direct folks to the web to the fix the issue themselves as it is unsupported this exact same issue 4 or 5 times in the last several months.

    It's like I said: They're using the TPM. Probably on a laptop with a corporate domain account that requires the machine to either use a BL pin to unlock the drive on boot and / or to verify against the TPM via VSC for a direct VPN user session log in.

    The system reads the MBR as being corrupted b/c it has something in it other than the doze loader and on corp accounts (if they're set up right) BIOS can be managed by group policy pushes. And it is very common for those pushes to change the system to "secure boot" (UEFI) to enforce TPM compliance. Although I don't really see why as most systems with legacy boot are able to run their TPMs just fine.

    That secure boot turning itself on crap comes up all the time and is a big source of headaches. And the 8/.1 MBR will overwrite the MBR in a heartbeat. It wants to be the only thing on the machine. (At least with the way our policies work, I couldn't say about out in the world.)

    The repair is simple enough : just run boot-repair from a CD.

    The only thing that does not make sense is the system having three boot option entires after being repaired instead of just two.

    Maybe some kind of artifact left over in the boot congfiguration? Maybe dup enteries for *nix after repair? But even that should be easy enough to fix by editing the boot menu with easyBCD.

    In so far as who it would effect: Well I only know of 1 network that runs like that. We have about 150K users and dual booting *nix is very, very rare amongst our users. (Heck, for all I know that was one of the people I told to go search the web for XYZ and fix it yourself b/c it's an unsupported config.)
    Last edited by Steven_G; 03-26-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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  8. #8
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    can you say lawsuit and antitrust?
    I know I can, friggin microsoft.

  9. #9
    Linux Engineer docbop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadmanRB View Post
    can you say lawsuit and antitrust?
    I know I can, friggin microsoft.
    Intel is who created UEIF so you sue the right people.

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