[jamey112]

china is not like the US. they dont have to give options. they are more like microsoft.

[Krendoshazin]

Originally Posted by techieMoe

We are talking about China here, right? Has China ever have freedom of speech?

maybe not as you view freedom of speech, but there is a certain amount of expression that they're allowed to make, article 35 of the chinese constitution states that it's citizens do have freedom of speech, however the communist party enforces restrictions on publishing activities more strictly than any other government in china's history, and that the people of china do not enjoy freedom of political expression in any meaningful sense of the term

Article 35. Freedom of speech, press, assembly

Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.

also article 41 states that

Article 41. Right to petition the state

Citizens of the People's Republic of China have the right to criticize and make suggestions regarding any state organ or functionary. Citizens have the right to make to relevant state organs complaints or charges against, or exposures of, any state organ or functionary for violation of the law or dereliction of duty, but fabrication or distortion of facts for purposes of libel or false incrimination is prohibited.

The state organ concerned must deal with complaints, charges or exposures made by citizens in a responsible manner after ascertaining the facts. No one may suppress such complaints, charges and exposures or retaliate against the citizens making them.

Citizens who have suffered losses as a result of infringement of their civic rights by any state organ or functionary have the right to compensation in accordance with the law.

the average chinese citizen enjoys more freedom of expression today than they ever did in china's history, jokes about political leaders would of resulted in execution or imprisonment just 20 years ago, but according the the chinese constitution these people that engage in online activities to falsify information and blacken the name of a particular government are breaking the law, that's clearly stated.

the real issue here is freedom of political expression

[techieMoe]

Originally Posted by Krendoshazin

... according the the chinese constitution these people that engage in online activities to falsify information and blacken the name of a particular government are breaking the law, that's clearly stated.

the real issue here is freedom of political expression

Exactly. Who determines what is "blackening the name" of the government and what is simply freedom of expression? The way I see this is "you're free to express your opinions on the government, provided they're PRO government, which means you're NOT free to express your opinions on the government unless you agree with it". Confusing.

And yes, China does not have "freedoms" as I see them. I complain about my government a lot but I'm happy I can at least express distaste with the morons that run my country without fear of retaliation.

[guitarinvegas]

Hey all, I've just gotta jump in....

To my fellow Americans. Have you noticed where YOU live lately?!? What do you think happens if you check the wrong book out of the library, or use the words allah and bomb in the same sentance on your cell? How about showing up at a Bush fundraiser, where he's speaking, and excersising your "freedom of speech"? Try walking around with a sign that says Bush is a war criminal and see what happens. THEY'VE GOT YOU FOOLED!!!! And as far as the comments implying that China policing the internet is the symptom of the great communist conspiracy, how about you chime back in on the Patriot Act. And, while you're at it, how about a little background on Marx or communism in general. Or does your knowledge of the subject not exceed McCarthy era rants and, oh so endearing, Americanisms like "commy bastard"? I implore you.... STOP HELPING THEM!!!!!! PLEASE!! You are implicet in the problem. If this was to harsh, I am sorry. Then again, if you can imply a racial slur (sounds like slink... yuk yuk yuk), I can tell the rest of the world, that we arent all like you.... just the south is
Jeff

[benjamin20]

?

[techieMoe]

Originally Posted by benjamin20

?

I second that.

[geese]

i dont think the US is perfect, but i rather live there than China.

[techieMoe]

Originally Posted by geese

i dont think the US is perfect, but i rather live there than China.

I second that as well.

[guitarinvegas]

ok, here's my point. Is the us a "safer" country than China? Of course. Do us citizens have more freedom than Chinese? Yes. Amsterdam? That's questionable. Canada? I dont think so. But the complacency intrinsic to your responses is what they're counting on. Freedom is not relative. It is or it isnt. And I dont think it exists here. Certainly not enough to warrant "and thats why I'm gald i live in the usa" comments. I'd also like it noted that the two intellectually stimulating responses of "?" came from those south of the mason dixon line (Moe and Ben, please know that I'm totally just poking fun, and if you guys are really offended, I really am sorry and will stop). Please feel free to responde with your point of view. I'm all about intellectual discourse, and do look forward to hearing opposing views. Thanks guys,
Jeff

[techieMoe]

Originally Posted by guitarinvegas

ok, here's my point. Is the us a "safer" country than China? Of course. Do us citizens have more freedom than Chinese? Yes. Amsterdam? That's questionable. Canada? I dont think so. But the complacency intrinsic to your responses is what they're counting on. Freedom is not relative. It is or it isnt. And I dont think it exists here. Certainly not enough to warrant "and thats why I'm gald i live in the usa" comments.

I think most of us would agree that things like the USA Patriot Act, DMCA, and software patents are definitely limiting freedoms of US citizens, however I'm not willing to blow up and say that we should scrap the whole system because it's being abused. If you're passionate about "freedom is or it isn't", then do everything in your power to make that so, be it grassroots campaigning, writing petitions, protesting in Washington, or what have you.

Just because you're not "glad to live in the USA" doesn't mean the rest of us are morons for having a different opinion. Some of us aren't so quick to jump down someone else's throat, as your original post did, no matter how well-intentioned.

I'd also like it noted that the two intellectually stimulating responses of "?" came from those south of the mason dixon line (Moe and Ben, please know that I'm totally just poking fun, and if you guys are really offended, I really am sorry and will stop).

Well, I really don't understand what my location has to do with any of this, and I re-read your post again. I still don't understand it. I take no offense, but I don't think my location in the USA has any bearing on my opinion of the state of the union.

That being said, I tend to stay out of politics. They're by nature volatile topics, so I'm going to bow out of this thread.