[guitarinvegas]

Moe,
I do agree with most of what you said, although i'm not advocating blowing it up and starting from scratch, just that we shouldnt sound SO happy with it. I also agree the nature of politics lends itself to conflict, so i'll keep the anarchistic rallies for the meetings down by the docks . One more thing, the south comments. I really should have said red states, not southern states. And I've just noticed that the more "religious" a region, the more supportive of the current system abuses they are. So I am sorry, and peace be with everyone
Jeff

[cayalee]

as far as im aware there is no country that has true "freedom of speech" all governments have powers of some kind to stop some stuff being printed/televised.
obviously places in europe are *slightly* better than iran and china
china cant even access news.google.com and get the same articles we would as the govt filter subversive stuff out! IMO thats just wrong, but hey, who's to say my opinion is any more valid than theirs?

[benjamin20]

im not so shure of what these "red states" are you speak of. im guessing this has some political knock on religios people. so let me stop you there if this is in fact the case. acording to the last election i saw basicly every state in america voted for bush excluding the usual libral lands such as massachusets, newyork, and calafornia along with a couple others. so saying that its a southern thing to vote conservative is just plain wrong. since its not true and doesnt belong in this forum if we truly plan on keeping this place a haven ftom hate speech. not to mention your bias against religion. many people in these forums are religious (not including me) and vote libral im shure.(not including me either.)

now as far as our great nations rights go, yes, we dont have all the freedoms of smoking pot leagaly, or doing even worse drugs for thst matter. however we have the freedom of walking down the road and not getting jumped by some drug crazed person who plans on killing us for our 20 dollars to go buy drugs with. (well, most places have that freedom, others are too overrun with druggies). not to mention we here in america have our good old second ammendment rights which most western civilizations dont seem to have anymore.

[cayalee]

Originally Posted by benjamin20

im not so shure of what these "red states" are you speak of. im guessing this has some political knock on religios people. so let me stop you there if this is in fact the case. acording to the last election i saw basicly every state in america voted for bush excluding the usual libral lands such as massachusets, newyork, and calafornia along with a couple others. so saying that its a southern thing to vote conservative is just plain wrong. since its not true and doesnt belong in this forum if we truly plan on keeping this place a haven ftom hate speech. not to mention your bias against religion. many people in these forums are religious (not including me) and vote libral im shure.(not including me either.)

now as far as our great nations rights go, yes, we dont have all the freedoms of smoking pot leagaly, or doing even worse drugs for thst matter. however we have the freedom of walking down the road and not getting jumped by some drug crazed person who plans on killing us for our 20 dollars to go buy drugs with. (well, most places have that freedom, others are too overrun with druggies). not to mention we here in america have our good old second ammendment rights which most western civilizations dont seem to have anymore.

no offence mate but im really not following that argument.
im pretty sure the chinese also have the right to walk down the street without getting knifed for the equivalent of 20 dollars.
we have the right to 'free' speech and the chinese dont is the general theme of the topic, not sure where this drug thing came from.
there is a percieved stereotype over my end of the water that generally the american right are middle class christians with the 2.4 children, a nice house in the suburbs and the such(its pretty much the same here). while it doesnt hold for everyone, stereotypes generally have a basis on truth. voter disparity and lack of interest among the working classes can skew the results, and politics are never easy to judge using black and white logic. and now ive gone and forgotten what my point was.....

[Flatline]

there is a percieved stereotype over my end of the water that generally the american right are middle class christians with the 2.4 children, a nice house in the suburbs and the such

Actually, it is my experience that most of the Christian right are at best lower-middle class. The middle-to-upper middle class itself has a tendency to be much more liberal than the poor or lower-middle class in most cases, or are right-wing for much different reasons. It also has to be remembered that not everyone who voted for Bush was voting for religious reasons (Kerry was, at best, a placeholder - I actually consider it a kind of victory that so poor a candidate came so close to winning).

[benjamin20]

true that in many places the religios are the poor. but i find that many upper class people are religious too while its the middle class that doesnt seem to have much of a care for it. not that they so much as dont believe in it as much as they dont make it aparent that they do.

as for the drug reffrence, he was talking about the freedoms between america and canada. one of the most obvius is that of the drugs.

[cayalee]

Originally Posted by benjamin20

true that in many places the religios are the poor. but i find that many upper class people are religious too while its the middle class that doesnt seem to have much of a care for it. not that they so much as dont believe in it as much as they dont make it aparent that they do.

as for the drug reffrence, he was talking about the freedoms between america and canada. one of the most obvius is that of the drugs.

oh fair do's! my knowledge of canada is summed up by this a)its further north than america b) its big c)some of them speak french.
in the uk it seems a much more middle/upper class thing to be religious, and religous people seem to be an endangered species in my area. dont know what its like for you guys...

[JoeB]

Well, I guess if it's a choice between Freedom and Money, I'm not surprised where these guys stand.

[Santa's little helper]

Originally Posted by JoeB

Well, I guess if it's a choice between Freedom and Money, I'm not surprised where these guys stand.

To be fair filters are dead easy to bypass.Instead of
writing democracy for example you can write de.m0cracy or
thousands of other combinations so the issue is more or less academic.

Which brings to mind: I can't remember if I saw it here or elsewhere
but using Unix you can have a very simple cryptography by filtering
your text through tr '[a-mn-z]' '[n-za-m]' The recipient can decrypt
it by filtering it through the same thing.This should be more than
enough to defeat any censoring software.

[guitarinvegas]

let's not forget about tor at http://tor.eff.org