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I'm curious, how does everyone feel about RPM's? Well for me, i think it's time distro's moved away from RPM, although there is a lot of tools to help end ...
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  1. #1
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    How do you feel about RPM's?


    I'm curious, how does everyone feel about RPM's? Well for me, i think it's time distro's moved away from RPM, although there is a lot of tools to help end dependcy hell, it still leaves some major problems such as not being able to upgrade your system easily. The .deb is already proven to be better, what's stopping distros from using it?

    I now refuse to even try RPM distros, because i remember when i first started using linux suse almost had me running back to windows. When i met debian, i formatted my windows partiton that very day. (about a year ago now)

    So how do you all feel abour RPM? Keep it clean. :P

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    Linux User benjamin20's Avatar
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    i feel the same way. exept rpms made me want to run away from the conventional instalation of premade binaries all together. i never understood how rpms could messup so bad. if a small group of programers who arent making money off of there distro can develop a program that downloads and compiles source software with very few messups better than an antire company and then some with a simple binary extraction tool. well, if you followed me through that than telll me what that means this world has come too.
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    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
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    Re: How do you feel about RPM's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash
    I'm curious, how does everyone feel about RPM's? Well for me, i think it's time distro's moved away from RPM, although there is a lot of tools to help end dependcy hell, it still leaves some major problems such as not being able to upgrade your system easily. The .deb is already proven to be better, what's stopping distros from using it?
    One word: pride. No matter how much better a new (or old) format may be, there will always be people that are simply too stubborn/prideful/contrary to use it instead of what they're used to. I honestly don't see this ever changing since Linux at its very core is about choice, and some people will always choose a different package format.

    I would also like to ask you to clarify your comment as to ".deb being proven better". What study has proven this? How is .deb inherently better than for instance a dependency-checking RPM-based program like YaST or YUM? I like Debian just fine, but I don't see it as "far superior" to RPM-based distros. Care to elaborate on that point?
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    Linux Guru Flatline's Avatar
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    I don't like or dislike rpm as a package format. It's the package management software that has needed to improve, and it has come a long, long way. Urpmi is a good system, as is (of course) apt-get, which can be used with rpms if you so choose.
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    Linux Guru dylunio's Avatar
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    The idea behind .rmp is nice, you have a simple to install package. The problem in my view is that rpm in itself is that it has no dependancy solving, and thus leads you into dependancy hell.
    I'm not very fond of any pure binary package-managers since it can leave to many options in and slow/bloat the system. I personally think that source based packagemanagers such as partage or force-get are the way to go since they install options for your computer, and thus are generally faster, though you do have to wait for the package to compile which can take time.
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    Re: How do you feel about RPM's?

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    One word: pride. No matter how much better a new (or old) format may be, there will always be people that are simply too stubborn/prideful/contrary to use it instead of what they're used to. I honestly don't see this ever changing since Linux at its very core is about choice, and some people will always choose a different package format.

    I would also like to ask you to clarify your comment as to ".deb being proven better". What study has proven this? How is .deb inherently better than for instance a dependency-checking RPM-based program like YaST or YUM? I like Debian just fine, but I don't see it as "far superior" to RPM-based distros. Care to elaborate on that point?
    Sorry, that came out wrong. I meant it's proven better for me, being able to upgrade the full system so easily is what i look for in a distro and .deb's dependcy checking is great too. Check this out though. http://grimthing.com/archives/2004/06/27/let-rpm-sink/

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    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
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    Re: How do you feel about RPM's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash
    Sorry, that came out wrong. I meant it's proven better for me, being able to upgrade the full system so easily is what i look for in a distro and .deb's dependcy checking is great too. Check this out though. http://grimthing.com/archives/2004/06/27/let-rpm-sink/
    That fellow has some logical fallacies in his argument. His entire argument that these simply *cannot* be fixed and should be scrapped is revolving around one product: urpmi from Mandrake. He makes broad claims about how "shoddy RPMs hose your system" and offers no constructive data on how these RPMs are shoddy or how they may be fixed. It's about the same as saying: "Chevrolet has issues with their vehicles so we should all stop driving automobiles all together."

    I'm not saying I think RPM is the greatest or that it's even without its share of problems. I simply do not see how RPM is so obviously inferior to DEB, Ports, or Portage to merit scrapping one in favor of the other. I'm going to go back to my previous assertion once more: Linux at its core is about choice, and until something changes to only allow one person's idea to be implemented, there will always be competing package management schemes. Competition is a good thing.
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    RPM's definitely made it easier for me to use linux as a total newbie.

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    Linux Guru fingal's Avatar
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    Speaking for myself rpms work quite well. I tend to install software from magazine cover disks using Mandriva. I never really got to grips with command line rpm handling (just a bit of laziness on my part).

    What I tend to do is find the rpms on my disk, right click them and select install>use installer

    My system handles the whole thing automatically from then on. I just keep doing that (assuming I have everything I need on the cover disk) until core packages* stop complaining about dependencies. I combine this method with installing from source - a kind of 'pick and mix' approach which works for me. I have no more trouble installing than I had with Windross - The process doesn't feel quite as smooth though.

    *By this I mean the main package I'm trying to install. Rpms are often what I use for dependencies.
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    Linux Guru Vergil83's Avatar
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    Re: How do you feel about RPM's?

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash
    I'm curious, how does everyone feel about RPM's? Well for me, i think it's time distro's moved away from RPM, although there is a lot of tools to help end dependcy hell, it still leaves some major problems such as not being able to upgrade your system easily. The .deb is already proven to be better, what's stopping distros from using it?
    One word: pride. No matter how much better a new (or old) format may be, there will always be people that are simply too stubborn/prideful/contrary to use it instead of what they're used to. I honestly don't see this ever changing since Linux at its very core is about choice, and some people will always choose a different package format.

    I would also like to ask you to clarify your comment as to ".deb being proven better". What study has proven this? How is .deb inherently better than for instance a dependency-checking RPM-based program like YaST or YUM? I like Debian just fine, but I don't see it as "far superior" to RPM-based distros. Care to elaborate on that point?
    I think the reason that you hear about less issues with .deb than .rpm (atleast I have) is because of the vast number of packges that debian offically supports. Dependency problem are solved easier because those packages are most likely avaible in the offical mirrors too. I think if Fedora or whomever had something like this, rpm could be just as "strong".
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