Trollism

[woollybarr]

I apologise to all those who may have accidentally clicked onto this looking for help for a certain problem. This post is purely to do with this:

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/sus...x-rubbish.html

I apologise to all those I may have caused offence to by saying "Linux is Rubbish". I certainly didn't expect the reaction I got, nor to get the thread locked. My intent was to demonstrate the end-user Linux experience, to say that as a whole, if I was a simple user and not a developer, I would be upset. That was the point. I find it difficult to accept that expressing this makes me a "troll".

To Kojak: I appreciate that working on Linux is hard work, I appreciate what you and others like you have done for computing and I respect that. Honestly.
As a developer, I've worked on plenty of projects where I've worked my guts out just for some end user to find some tiny bug and say "it's rubbish". That's what I'm trying to say - my end user Linux experience is bad, no matter how hard the people behind it have tried. And more, I don't get why there's all the flashy icons and stuff but everything is so slow and hard to configure.

If people are unwilling to discuss this, or this isn't the place, I'll stop now. My intent was not to upset people, just possibly to create a debate.

[oz]

Hi, woollybarr

I'm moving your thread to the Coffee Lounge because the Suse Forum is for help requests, and this thread doesn't really appear to be a request for help.

[ImNeat]

I think Kojak 'bout nailed it - but I'll add my newer-user two cents.

I don't understand how you can generalize GNU/Linux as rubbish after trying two wms on two distros for two weeks. I came into linux with much less computer-knowledge than you, but even I knew to have the mindset "this isn't windows." Same as when I started using macs for the first time - I felt like an idiot 'cuz I couldn't do a few basic things, simply because it was different from windows. I suppose our difference is that I blame myself while you blame the OS.
Just give GNU/Linux another chance. Hit distrowatch.org and find a distro that looks cool/useful to you - not what a magazine or co-worker recommended. You'll find quickly that linux and windows are similar in many ways yet extremely different in others.
No two people use a computer for the exact same reason. Maybe for your personal style and agenda windows is the way to go. For most of us obviously linux was the way to go. If you choose linux virtually everyone here will be glad to help you with any problem you come across. If you choose windows I promise I won't go to your windows forum and tell you why your OS is rubbish.

[oz]

Guys, I'm watching this thread as are the other mods, I'm sure. If it's going to turn into a continuation of the "Linux is Rubbish" thread, we'll need to lock this one as well.

I'm in full agreement with the other mod that the original thread was pure trolling. This thread didn't get locked because it appears to be for the purpose of apologizing. If it's here for some other reason, we'll need to reconsider.

ozar

[CodeRoot]

@woollybarr:

If you will take the time to read these, you might find them helpful and encouraging:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW1.htm
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/lin...ated-noob.html

I know they may be a bit long -- but perhaps you will find them well worth it!

[deltatux]

yes, I do agree w/ CodeRoot and you should read what Linux IS and IS NOT.

I do also agree with the user that stated that if you're a programmer, I don't think you would ditch a code that doesn't work even if it's for Windows. A developer doesn't only need skills, but another factor that is required is patience and anger control. I think you have the skills and the anger control for being a developer, but from your post, it seems you lack the factor of patience.

This is just IMHO and it is not meant to start a flame war since it's just my observations from the previous thread.


Cheers!
deltatux

[Kojak]

As your main concerns are that there are too many flahy icons and not enough speed, I would love to install Mandriva 2007 onyour box, but it is still in the devel-phase (=cooker), so not really what might be useful for you, but the speed problem is being watched at by developers. Before, it was mainly Arch, Gentoo and other "expert" distros that allowed you to have a very, very fast Linux machine. Now, the big players are also moving into that direction.

Speaking e.g. of Mandriva. My Mdv2006 workstation boots in roughly 40 seconds from start to the login manager. The Mdv2007 Cooker snapshot boots in roughly 25 seconds from the start to the login manager. This was achieved by rewriting a lot of the bootscripts that allow the machine to run more services parallel. A big improvement imho. Gnome also worked on a speed improvement itself. At work, I have to use Windows workstations, but they are (although on paper more powerful than my home Sempron machines) slower than my workstations with Mandriva. Sure, I fintetuned my boxes a bit, but nothing extraordinary. What I want to say basically is: The speed problem you experiences is something that Linux developers are aware of and they work on an improvement. But this is only the case now because Linux machines are used more and more as desktop machines (Desktop Linux seriously began to see the light around the year 2000) . Originally, Linux was a server OS and as such, booting speed didn't matter. It was all about stability and that is what they delivered. They sacrificed speed for stability. Now, we begin to get stability paired with speed.

Personally, I ditched SUSE long time ago because they concentrate more on the look than anything else imho. They are imho on the wrong path (others will disagree of course, as they have other preferences than me). I need a system that simply works for me and in my case, it is Mandriva. And if you are seeking a distro that makes system administration easy, then go along and try e.g. the free version of Mandriva (3CDs for download, here is a picture of the central admin tool http://images.mandriva.com/img/9.2/s25.png). It is easy to use. But no matter which distro you choose: read the documentation. It will make your transition to Linux much easier. And: Ask questions, no matter how stupid you might think they are and be a bit patient if you don't get a reply immediately. For some problems we, too, have to do some researches.

[d38dm8nw81k1ng]

read my sig

[redbeard]

Hi woollybarr,

Welcome to the forum. I'm actually surprised your initial post wasn't locked instantly, and that this one is still open. The mods here have very strict policies against anything that even remotely smells of flames. I think they have given you very wide berth because you are a critic of Linux, and not the other way around.

My first observation reading your posts is how many times you repeat that you are a developer, you know computers. What I think you mean is you are a Windows developer, you know Windows. I wouldn't call myself a developer but I have written some code myself. I know that when I was writing SW for Windows I ended up learning the OS inside and out; you can't be a half way decent developer on any platform without knowing how the OS works. I think part of what you are reacting to is moving from being a power user to a stranger in a strange land.

My second observation is I think you have the feeling that the users of this forum expect you to use Linux There are quite a few Linux trolls who constantly post on other forums about how everyone needs to use Linux and stay away from the evil MS (but with a $ for the S) and adopt their Linux distro of choice. You won't find that attitude here, and the mods will very quickly shut down anyone who adopts that kind of MS bashing posture (there is even a specific rule against calling MS Microsucks, M$, etc on this forum). If you decide you would like to continue using linux and would like some help doing so, you are at the right place. If you are looking for someone to convince you to quit using Windows and switch to Linux, I'm happy to say this isn't the place.

[bigtomrodney]

Woollybarr I think I speak for everyone when I say we appreciate the apology, especially given we all work so hard to keep the forum free of trolls. As mentioned we also promote the fact that Linux is an operating system, not the operating system. The only thing that isn't tolerated here is bashing, whether it's aimed at linux, windows, mac or pizza. Whatever, as long as we keep this a friendly open forum for discussion. Seek the help you need, and pay it forward if you can.

Now with all that said, I think this thread has reached the end of its usefulness and I'm going to close it, hopefully with all sides heard.