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  1. #41
    Linux Guru bigtomrodney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    I would certainly agree with you on that. Isn't there a crowd that went out and licensed the MP3 codecs and licence their software freely? That's something I wonder why it hasn't been looked into by most distros.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtomrodney
    I would certainly agree with you on that. Isn't there a crowd that went out and licensed the MP3 codecs and licence their software freely? That's something I wonder why it hasn't been looked into by most distros.
    fluendo offers the gstreamer plugin for mp3 and it is legit but it still involves a patent which requires a distribution contract, the code is MIT license which means it is "free" but sue to the patent it is still a mess and a lot of distros still do not consider that free enough to include but of course the end user can still grab it and use it legally. Debian does include it in main so they do not feel it is a problem.

  3. #43
    Do you have anything to back that up? All the literature I've read (and I have subscribed to CNR a while back) says that CNR is never accessible via apt, and the only thing you can get free using their CNR client is security updates. If they'ved changed this policy it's news to me
    . I think someone earlier stated you could access the CNR warehouse repository using apt with no cost on linspire. I was simply correcting that and stating that on linspire you still cannot do that to my knowledge but freespire you CAN do that. It isn't a big secret or anything. I should clarify though, on freespire the CNR warehouse IS the apt repository but you only have access to the free software if you are using apt.

    Oh and btw - the free security updates via CNR is only if you have a CNR membership. Not quite free in my opinion. I mean you have to sign into cnr to cnr anything and the only way to sign into cnr is if you have a membership isn't it? Please correct me if I am wrong, I occasionally am. Of course, Linspire doesn't consider a lot of things as a security risk, even things that other distros DO consider a security risk. That is part of my problem with them is the old software especially as it relates to older packages having security risks.

    Shenanigans. Having the choice to use any of the thousands of other distros that don't install Java, Flash, or ATI/Nvidia drivers or using Freespire sounds like a pretty clear example of "choice" to me. What's your definition?
    My definition has to do with being able to choose what I want or don't want, not having it decided for me. I should be able to choose to use linspire AND choose not to use java. Choice is about having it your way, the "it" that you want and what goes with the "it". Not just being told the choice is to go get something someplace else. I mean Kevin Carmony said it himself "The user should be free to decide what software they want to install on their systems, be that proprietary or open source." That would be choice!

    Who cares? Really, if you want completely OSS Linux there's thousands of distributions out there that fit the bill. Why lambast one of the only distributions that's trying something different?
    Well really what was the point if all they were going to do was offer linspire without the cost? They could of just offered another coupon code and been done with it. They are trying to start a community based distro, with volunteer coders and listen to the community. Do you think many will contribute if it is ONLY a proprietary product? This was suppose to be something new and different for linspire. They were going to try and be like other distros that have two versions of freespire similar to how suse and RH/fedora created a community edition. So that is why I care and why it matters is because this was suppose to be linspires effort at being more in-line with the community and with doing things the way other distros do them and until they progress they still aren't anything but linspire.

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  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    I agree that Linspire (and Freespire) have problems. My original point when starting this thread was to laud their decision to offer a free (no charge) version of Linux that had legally-licensed multimedia codecs, which is something no other free distribution has offered (and some of the pay ones don't either). I hope other distributions that can afford to license this software (i.e. Novell) see this as a good example and do the same.
    Woops! Well I apologize for hijacking your thread. But they pretty much have that with linspire itself. Just have to find a coupon code and usually there is one floating around.

    I think this is a really great idea they have once it is fully carried out and they have community involvement and a release version that is always distributable so that any contributions made by the community will always be available to the community. I think it is awesome! I personally do not find that linspire has the ability to play many more (if any) formats than I can on debian etch. But the one thing they do have going for them is it is totally out of the box and a breeze to install the distro. But man they need to work on that boot time and general slowness of launching apps - which AFAIK it is on the radar and will be worked on.

    I also think that offering the open source edition along with being able to use apt for the free software and not running as root by default will eliminate a lot of the criticism Linspire gets by reviewers. That is part of the reason for making freespire is to try and do things in a more accepted way and to eliminate some of the criticism.

    Once again, I think it is awesome. But I refuse to contribute to a distro that may take my work and add it in but I cannot legally make a copy and share with friends. So until they have the open source "free" edition I am not interested. I still am glad they did it, I am impressed with the idea, and as soon as it is carried thru I will be a happy camper.

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtomrodney
    I see they still have the default user is root problem. I read an article in LinuxFormat where Mike Robertson defied the interviewer to say why logging in as root was a bad idea. That pretty much made me angry enough to write off that distro permanently.
    PS - What's the deal on nVidia/ATI drivers being included? There's a lot of talk on legality of that. Gotta say I'm not too sure myself.
    Nope, you don't run as root by default in freespire. You are automatically logged in as the user you created and you will have to enable root as well as set permission to login as root if you want it. Otherwise I believe sudo is what they want you to use. They are also working on a root-actions menu for a user as well.

    Nothing *technically* wrong with nvidia or ati being included and the user linking the module in. A end user can do anything they want and the GPL really does into come into play. Yes you are supposedly breaking the intent of the GPL when you do that - it is your system and as such you are allowed to do that. Where it becomes a problem is if it is already linked in and you are distributing that code. The you are distributing something that has a GPL license on it and that is linked together with closed code which is not allowed by the GPL. I like novells approach to the situation as well as other distros where you have to go and install the closed drivers if you want them. But I do understand that Linspire shoots for the out-of-the-box experience so I can see why they do it the way they do. Of course novell said it is a support nightmare and that combined with the GPL issue is why they are choosing to go another route and the user will have to actively go and get the drivers but they plan to implement a easy method for this to be done.

    Sorry, I am off topic again already!

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    I've posted my preliminary review of Freespire 1.0 Beta. Overall it was a positive experience, although it well deserved the name "beta".
    In respnse to your review-
    The error "Cannot start JACK server." is a common aggravating problem on linspire and freespire. It has been discussed numerous times. One issue is why it was included in the first place since it isn't needed by everyone and causes a fair number of problems. The biggest problem is the way it was implemented. You do not really have a choice to NOT use jack. As you can see everything has been configured to pipe thru Jack which is a sound system that works alongside of arts and alsa. You cannot remove it either as it will rip out almost every linspire teaked package you have. So the choice has been removed from you and you are required to use JACK even though it may not work worth a hoot on your system. On other distros jack is optional, and can be installed or uninstalled. As stated this issue has been discussed numerous times and hopefully the resolution will be forthcoming. Hopefully it is simply the implementation that needs some correction and not JACK itself since JACK often works fine on other distros.

    Freespire does not run as root by default. In fact root is disabled and has no password set and is not part of the desktop group by default. As I said in another post this is a GREAT step that freespire has taken. It still needs some tweaking and finesse but it is a good setup and should remove any criticism that linspire use to get about this issue.

    I am very impressed with freespire and hope it will continue to be what they said it would. I will gladly use it and hopefully contribute when I am assured that anything I contribute will be a part of a freely redistributable edition as well as the current non-distributable edition.

  8. #47
    Didn't know if I should start a new thread or bump this one but here goes.

    The new version is out 1.0.13 for the regular version and 1.0.14 for the OSS edition. Yes, I have to give props they finally got the OSS edition rolled out.

    I think having the OSS edition is a great benefit to them simply because it does indicate at least a slight change in their stance that only proprietary is good and all that they bother with.

    Apt is mostly working but you cannot dist-upgrade or so it has been reported. The warehouse/repository is a mess but I am hoping it will be straightened up and brought in line to be more standard. I actually upgraded KDE to 3.5.0 using sarge/backports and a little bit of fiddling.

    If they keep up this speed of development they may catch back up to everyone and stay on or near the bleeding edge...I hope!

    Pretty neato! Might want to check it out!

  9. #48
    Linux User zba78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Birmingham, England
    Not 100% sure but I do believe that the 1.0.13 they released yesterday is the final of Freespire 1.0

    I think they are now working towards Freespire 1.1 which should be the one that improves on hardware auto-detection/comapatibility
    Ubuntu Jaunty :: Arch Linux (current) :: Acer Aspire 1692WMLi

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