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Originally Posted by techieMoe No, I think your point is that for some users dumping MS Windows is not an option. There are quite a few of us who get ...
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  1. #11
    Super Moderator devils casper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    No, I think your point is that for some users dumping MS Windows is not an option. There are quite a few of us who get along just fine without it.
    well !! this is what i am trying to say...

    "There are quite a few of us who get along just fine without it."
    It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.
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  2. #12
    Super Moderator devils casper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxoff
    And I hate to disagree with any member of this forum - but you are wrong, it is utterly possible to dump Windows right now if you really want. Ask the computer team that did the graphics for the film Titanic whether they needed Windows at all...
    well !! it depends on experience and needs....
    you can debate on this topic for months... a lot of points ... pro and cons...
    right now i can give you all the counter points, you quoted in the last post
    but at last... it depends on what you want from this machine.... and ofcourse experience......

    <=== { casper } ===>
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  3. #13
    Linux Guru fingal's Avatar
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    To offer some brief points - if you don't mind - I found giving up Windows to be a process which spanned a few years. I had to use it as a student, but that was when it started to bite me financially because I had it connected to the net ... without a firewall.

    In those days I was completely naive about firewalls. Needless to say, my computer quickly became a repository for spyware and - probably - one or two viruses ... My system literally collapsed, until I was left with two options:

    1.) Give up using a computer altogether; or
    2.) Find some way to carry on without Windows.

    I chose option 2.) without really knowing how to go about it in the beginning. I had already heard about Linux but hadn't tried it. Additionally my hardware was old, money was tight (I was living in a bedsit) and things didn't look so good: being good with computers is an essential part of my job.

    Being Windows free means having to adapt and give up what is familiar to you. Leaving this 'comfort zone' isn't easy and requires a little self sacrifice, but less than you might think. Just felt the need to say all that.
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

  4. #14
    Super Moderator Roxoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devils_casper
    well !! it depends on experience and needs....
    you can debate on this topic for months... a lot of points ... pro and cons...
    right now i can give you all the counter points, you quoted in the last post
    but at last... it depends on what you want from this machine.... and ofcourse experience......

    <=== { casper } ===>
    Hmmm, I'm gonna disagree with you again. You might be able to counter-argue that your original claim is true, but your statement was :

    dumping windows right now
    no way... its not possible.. a lot of work to do.....
    Just because that statement may be true for you, doesn't mean it's true for everyone. And as it's not true for everyone, it not true. There are absolutely no arguments you can present to say otherwise - if even one user has ditched Windows already, then this statement is false.

    And lets face it, there are many users on here that have dumped Windows.

    I could spend a lot of time trying to convince you that ditching Windows is possible, but you've already made up your mind, so it's all a bit pointless to try that.
    Linux user #126863 - see http://linuxcounter.net/

  5. #15
    Linux Enthusiast carlosponti's Avatar
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    i dumped windows on my desktop primarily though i still have a windows partition as a crutch and really i dont use it. both laptops we use in my house are on linux. and my wife is fine with linux now and she is not a techie user. aside from the notebook she gets on my desktop to work on word processing documents and prints them using cups. once you get linux setup its stable for years.
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  6. #16
    Super Moderator devils casper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxoff
    Hmmm, I'm gonna disagree with you again. You might be able to counter-argue that your original claim is true, but your statement was :
    just because that statement may be true for you, doesn't mean it's true for everyone. And as it's not true for everyone, it not true. There are absolutely no arguments you can present to say otherwise - if even one user has ditched Windows already, then this statement is false.

    And lets face it, there are many users on here that have dumped Windows.

    I could spend a lot of time trying to convince you that ditching Windows is possible, but you've already made up your mind, so it's all a bit pointless to try that.
    hi roxoff !!!

    again arguments arguments arguments... true or false.... etc etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by devils_casper
    dumping windows right now
    no way... its not possible.. a lot of work to do.....
    i dont think i am wrong a bit.......
    here i am not giving any decision or last words... its my opinion only... if you are not agree with it... all right.. no probs... but its true for a lot of people....

    i am already in linux world and working on linux only.... FC5, Ubuntu and SuSe....

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    "There are quite a few of us who get along just fine without it."
    <=== { casper } ===>
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  7. #17
    Linux Engineer Thrillhouse's Avatar
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    Dumping Windows

    This is semi-off topic but...

    I first started using Linux about a year ago when I found that we were using it more and more in my Computer Science classes. The first time I ever used it I didn't even know I was using it. It was my C++ data structures class and the teacher was having us use Putty to SSH into one of the Linux servers that the CS department administered (they have since converted one of the Windows labs to RHEL). We were programming directly from the command line. I had no idea what I was doing until the end of the semester but I realized that the first time I started using a desktop Linux environment I was already familiar with many Linux commands and the file system. Learning to program in Linux, without an IDE, was a great way to learn some of the basics of Linux and we started using it more and more. In my Information Security class, we simulated different scenarios with Windows and Linux machines and this additional learning experience just added to the depth and breadth of my Linux knowledge. Now I have my computer set up to dual boot Windows and Fedora and I come here to learn what I can and ask for help when I need it.

    My point is: if you want to start using Linux you have to realize what it is you want to use it for before you completely abandon Windows. If my major was Media Arts and Design I would be an idiot to try and start using Linux because of some of the standards in the industry (i.e. Photoshop and Final Cut Pro). I don't think the Linux community is trying to stand out in those areas. That's why I think so many people get frustrated when they come to Linux from a Windows background. The first thing they want to do is start playing their music and DVD's so they do what any Windows user would do. They go out on the internet looking for a media player for Linux and when they get to the installation and they see the dependency errors they automatically assume that Linux either sucks or is not capable of the things Windows can do (somebody on here has a great article in their sig about applying Windows instincts to Linux). Playing multimedia is of the highest importance for them and this is why they grow angry, because it's not simple to accomplish one of their most basic requirements. Whereas, for someone like me, I need programming to be easy, which it is on Linux. The recent improvements in IDE's have made it easier to set up a programming environment on Windows but it's all abstracted. A beginning programmer probably doesn't understand the process behind compiling, linking, etc. I encountered problems too when I got around to using Linux regularly but luckily, I had enough of a Linux knowledge base to realize that I could find a way to get around them. Now, I use Linux 95% of the time except when I'm at work.

    Finally: lots of people have written about what it would take for Linux to become a major player in the OS market. Software Management and hardware compatibility/usability are the most often quoted reasons for its tardiness to the party and I think they are valid even though progress is being made. As for support for proprietary file formats, I don't think I know enough about the legal issues to say whether or not that issue can be resolved but it's certainly not impossible to make it a little easier. People who want to start using Linux have to ask themselves "why?". If it's because you're sick of the virii/spyware you've accumulated on your machine after years of Windows use, then I would say "welcome to the Linux world - but realize there's going to be a fairly steep learning curve." If they think they want to switch to Linux because they saw a screenshot of Xgl in action then I would tell them that they're switching for the wrong reasons and that they're probably going to end up frustrated and disappointed.

    I know lots of people have said this before, in one way or another. I just thought I would say that Windows can be a decent alternative for someone who knows how to protect themselves. I switched because I found it 100 times easier to program in Linux than in Windows (even if I was working with Java). If I wasn't a programmer, I probably wouldn't even bother with Linux. But I'm glad I did.

  8. #18
    Super Moderator devils casper's Avatar
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    hi Thrillhouse !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillhouse
    This is semi-off topic but...
    nope !! this is all i was trying convey... elaborated.....

    <=== { casper } ===>
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  9. #19
    Linux Engineer rcgreen's Avatar
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    One small disagreement.

    Yes I know that Win+R shortcut shows a similar applet in which we can run some apps by entering its names (like “iexplore”). But did you check what happens when you type “firefox” there? Or “opera”? Or any other apps whose binary is not located in one of the Windows’ system folders? It just doesn’t work since the applet can run only those apps that are on the system search path (the %PATH% variable configurable in Control Panel). If we want to use it, we’d have to manually modify the system path each time we install an application. Quite convenient, isn’t it?
    Windows actually seems to do a better job of automagically making
    apps available. In addition to the PATH, they also use mysterious
    registry entries that make it possible to run things from the START> RUN
    menu.

    I just finished installing Limewire on my Slackware box, and had to manually
    edit the menu, typing in the full pathname of the executable. Not too hard
    after you've done it a few times, but on Microsoft, it's fully automated.
    But then the installation of malware is fully automated too

  10. #20
    Linux Newbie stubbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillhouse
    My point is: if you want to start using Linux you have to realize what it is you want to use it for before you completely abandon Windows. If my major was Media Arts and Design I would be an idiot to try and start using Linux because of some of the standards in the industry (i.e. Photoshop and Final Cut Pro). I don't think the Linux community is trying to stand out in those areas. That's why I think so many people get frustrated when they come to Linux from a Windows background. The first thing they want to do is start playing their music and DVD's so they do what any Windows user would do. They go out on the internet looking for a media player for Linux and when they get to the installation and they see the dependency errors they automatically assume that Linux either sucks or is not capable of the things Windows can do (somebody on here has a great article in their sig about applying Windows instincts to Linux). Playing multimedia is of the highest importance for them and this is why they grow angry, because it's not simple to accomplish one of their most basic requirements.
    this is very true. My background is art and multimedia, I love linux but sometimes really I hate it. Only recently after I do some research for years looking for alternatives, I get a little bit comfortable with it, and that is most of the time I still hang around on windows, simply the softwares I use for work isn't available on Linux.

    It's quite funny tho, since most big CG and Visual FX companies I read are using Linux workstations and servers, why does CG end users having problems with Linux.

    I love Linux well first because you can get the "very me" configuration out of your OS. The most comfortable working environment you can have that suited only for you. "Industry Standard" now that's really an issue. But I always dreaming of starting my own business with my own standard. I've prepared myself, making myself comfortable with the alternative softwares.

    Multimedia and games, that's two major weakness of Linux. For games, some companies tried to break the barrier, like Loki, but they somehow mysteriously ran out of business, very sad. Maybe they aren't fast enough to catch up with new game releases? I don't know. And us linux user have to live with our jaws dropping seeing Windows gamers playing all those cool games.

    Some developers also try to hear linuxers, such as NWN, Savage, Quake, but most of the time their commitment on linux only last for awhile. Savage's new patch doesn't even come out on Linux. Only NWN and Quake still supporting Linux users.

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