Find the answer to your Linux question:
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27
Allow me to throw a rare example into the mix. When I attended US Navy Nuclear Power School a long, long time ago, they used the entrance exams to divide ...
Enjoy an ad free experience by logging in. Not a member yet? Register.
  1. #11
    Linux Enthusiast KenJackson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    510

    Allow me to throw a rare example into the mix.

    When I attended US Navy Nuclear Power School a long, long time ago, they used the entrance exams to divide the students into different sections by ability. And the course material for the advanced sections was more difficult and covered more material than the lower sections. So to get the same grade as someone in the lower section (there were only two sections in my specialty), I had to know more and apply more understanding to the problems.

    I think the theory was that they wanted to pack as much knowledge into the brains of future sailors as practical, and they used the entrance exams as a mechanism to know what could be expected of each student. At the time, I was just proud to have made the upper section, but now I view it as a wise use of resources and a wise preparation for defense.

    Of course public universities would never be allowed to do that. But public universities throw thousands of the citizens' tax dollars into each student's education. Therefore I believe they have an obligation to know if that use of tax money is justified. And testing is the only real means of knowing who justifies the use of tax resources.

    I appreciate drl's view on this one, and join him in saluting Minnesota and Wisconsin.

  2. #12
    Linux User Dark_Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Around St. Louis
    Posts
    284
    That's insane. One of my friends who barely passed high school from slacking off so much got a 22 on the ACT. Either he's a damn good guesser or nobody else tried on that test.

    Well, way to go Wisconsin I guess.
    Two levels higher than a newb.
    (I can search google)

  3. #13
    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,496
    Quote Originally Posted by KenJackson
    Of course public universities would never be allowed to do that. But public universities throw thousands of the citizens' tax dollars into each student's education. Therefore I believe they have an obligation to know if that use of tax money is justified. And testing is the only real means of knowing who justifies the use of tax resources.
    This much I agree with, but you further illustrate my point: we should be testing the education system, not the individual students.

    I appreciate drl's view on this one, and join him in saluting Minnesota and Wisconsin.
    I don't mean to sound cynical here, but saluting them for what? Encouraging their teachers to teach to a test? That's the last thing we should be lauding in my opinion. High school administrators in my state congratulate themselves when their school districts reach "Exemplary" status (which means a certain percentage of their students passed all the sections of our state standardized test). Statistically speaking, the vast majority of schools that reach "Exemplary" are white, middle to upper class districts. Would you congratulate them? If so, for what? Being white?
    Registered Linux user #270181
    TechieMoe's Tech Rants

  4. $spacer_open
    $spacer_close
  5. #14
    Linux Enthusiast KenJackson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    510
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Stang
    That's insane. One of my friends who barely passed high school from slacking off so much got a 22 on the ACT. Either he's a damn good guesser or nobody else tried on that test.
    It sounds like you are advocating more difficult and thorough tests. I'd go for that.

  6. #15
    Linux Enthusiast KenJackson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    510
    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    I don't mean to sound cynical here, but saluting them for what? Encouraging their teachers to teach to a test?
    I don't buy that argument, and I wouldn't blame school teachers for being offended by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    Statistically speaking, the vast majority of schools that reach "Exemplary" are white, middle to upper class districts. Would you congratulate them? If so, for what? Being white?
    This is coming close to being "reverse" racial prejudice. We won't encourage ethnic minorities to do better by changing the tests to suit them. Asian students often do better than white students because Asian students' parents demand good work from them.

    If it's minority performance we are concerned about, the question we need to ask is, how can we encourage better minority performance. If I may be allowed one political observation, the current US administration has a number of ethnic minority people serving in very important positions that serve as role models. I hope this will inspire some minority students to know that they are not being held down and can, in fact, achieve great things.

  7. #16
    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,496
    Quote Originally Posted by KenJackson
    I don't buy that argument, and I wouldn't blame school teachers for being offended by it.
    You can "not buy it" all you want, but denying the truth doesn't diminish it. I come from a family of school teachers, and they're the ones in greatest support of my view.

    This is coming close to be "reverse" racial prejudice. We won't encourage ethnic minorities to do better by changing the tests to suit them. Asian students often do better than white students because Asian students' parents demand good work from them.
    I don't think we should adapt the tests to suit each race either, but I certainly believe the existing tests in my state are catered to white students. I believe quite strongly that these tests should be abolished.

    If it's minority performance we are concerned about, the question we need to ask is, how can we encourage better minority performance. If I may be allowed one political observation, the current US administration has a number of ethnic minority people serving in very important positions that serve as role models. I hope this will inspire some minority students to know that they are not being held down and can, in fact, achieve great things.
    I'm sorry for bringing up the political aspects of this, and I'll bow out with this statement: politicians have tried time and time again to "increase minority performance", but they have done nothing to change the actual tests, nor have they addressed the more pressing issue here: teaching to standardized tests. All other arguments aside, this is what infuriates me most. The US educational system is designed so that children are not taught to think for themselves, only to take standardized tests. This is the absolute wrong thing to be congratulating or encouraging, in my not at all humble opinion. We can agree to disagree, if you like. I consider the cornerstone of real knowledge to start with being able to work things out on your own.
    Registered Linux user #270181
    TechieMoe's Tech Rants

  8. #17
    Linux Guru fingal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Birmingham - UK
    Posts
    1,539
    There are many interesting points in this thread. If anyone is interested in a press release about the current state of UK education, this one is good.

    A third of adults in the UK leave school with no basic qualifications. That's a lot of adults! If you read the article carefully it's shocking. I know how those kids feel ...

    [offtopic]
    I hope none of them end up like the short fat bloke who tried to sell me a packet of Viagra in the pub this weekend. Some people are just ... sad!
    [/offtopic]

    It's probably bad practice to take sides on here, and this isn't a mutual admiration society but I find that I agree with Moe wholeheartedly about 'teaching people to think for themselves'. That's what education is! If you only set very basic standardised tests it's like saying, 'Well done! You can jump over a 3 inch high fence. Tomorrow we'll teach you to tie your shoelaces. Now away you go into the wide world and make a living ...'
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

  9. #18
    Linux Enthusiast KenJackson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    510
    We've danced around one issue without really addressing it, so let me just mention it.

    I think there is entirely too much government in education today. I see no reason why the US federal government should be involved in pre-college education at all. It is largely to blame for elevating self-esteem above learning to read.

    The most important element in teaching is the teacher, not the bureaucrat that ties the teacher's hands.

  10. #19
    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,496
    Quote Originally Posted by KenJackson
    We've danced around one issue without really addressing it, so let me just mention it.

    I think there is entirely too much government in education today. I see no reason why the US federal government should be involved in pre-college education at all. It is largely to blame for elevating self-esteem above learning to read.
    If I'm not mistaken, the state of Nebraska would probably agree with you on that. They don't buy into the federally-mandated standardized tests and have skipped out on some federal funding because of it. I say more power to them.

    The most important element in teaching is the teacher, not the bureaucrat that ties the teacher's hands.
    No arguments there.
    Registered Linux user #270181
    TechieMoe's Tech Rants

  11. #20
    Linux Enthusiast carlosponti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    560
    dont they also have the highest birth rates during the fall too
    Blog
    Registered Linux user 396557

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •