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Originally Posted by Banko Definition is along the lines of: "Non-Essential System Resources" Browse through the folder see if its being used in this way.... I see a mix of: ...
  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banko
    Definition is along the lines of: "Non-Essential System Resources" Browse through the folder see if its being used in this way.... I see a mix of: Essential System, Non Essential System, User Globals, User Share. Take three seconds and go on IRC play dumb, ask say can anyone some up the purpose of the /usr and /opt folders in one or two sentences for me?
    Actually, according to the FHS:
    /usr is the second major section of the filesystem. /usr is shareable, read-only data. That means that /usr should be shareable between various FHS-compliant hosts and must not be written to. Any information that is host-specific or varies with time is stored elsewhere.
    And then, they describe:
    X11R6 XWindow System, version 11 release 6 (optional)
    games Games and educational binaries (optional)
    lib<qual> Alternate Format Libraries (optional)
    src Source code (optional)
    Which I interpret as "Everything that doesn't fit in /", but agree it's were most of the confusion comes from. I think you might be confusion /usr with /usr/sbin, which is describe as: "Non-vital system binaries"... /usr/bin is describe as: "Most user commands".

    On that note, I think that most of the FHS is left to reader interpretation, much like laws. Some people might interpret "most user commands" as programs that aren't required at boot time.

    As I stated NO HARD PATHS should ever be specified. /dev /sys /proc /var /lib are hard coded into almost all so-called flexible programs. Any path to any folder the program needs or installs should be included as a variable in their configure script, and make files, as I showed in my example earlier
    I agree 100%! It seems to me like a lot of FOSS softwares are just dirty hacks to make something work, ie: a proof of concept, which find its way into production use. There's not much that can be done though, unless of course you're willing to patch all that code.
    "Today you are freer than ever to do what you want, provided you can pay for it!" --Bad Religion

  2. #42
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    /usr is the second major section of the filesystem. /usr is shareable, read-only data
    I agree with this statement, not sure if I agree with your interpretation exactly, but I would be splitting hairs, on most of those points. But read-only data should be flying out in your mind here... which you almost point out with your statement here:

    I think you might be confusion /usr with /usr/sbin, which is describe as: "Non-vital system binaries"
    /usr/sbin = Non-Vital system binaries... which is almost exactly how I stated the /usr/sbin works? don't know what point you are making here, as my exact words were:

    /sbin and /usr/sbin are system administration tools and utilities. The distinction between them is /sbin programs are essential to the running the system, where as /usr/sbin is non-essential... I like to think of them as my conveniet apps and daemons, for working on the system.
    I clearly make a distinction of both levels one as being Essential and one as Non-Essential, BUT BOTH ARE SYSTEM, same as:

    /bin and /usr/bin are non-administrative system programs. The distinction is /bin is essential to the running of the system and /usr/bin is non-essential.
    No matter how you cut it, FHS is very specific that they are all "SYSTEM" folders for binaries, the only difference in our statements was you said "vital" and I said "essential".... And there is no arguing that the only difference between /sbin and /bin OR /usr/sbin and /usr/bin is that the "s" denotes systems administration.

    It seems that you or I are NOT arguing about anything accept for what we "believe" a system program to be

    Quick recap:

    bin = binary
    / = top level essential (or vital if you prefer)
    /usr = second level "SYSTEM" or Non-Essential "SYSTEM"
    s prefix = systems administration
    All are referenced to SYSTEM.... it's just a matter of at what level, importance, and purpose

    Again it comes down to: does my Solitare game belong in a "System" folder, because it's merely installed on my system or does system actually denote some kind of inference on what is expected of a program that goes there?

    Wikiepedia defines System Software as:

    System software helps run the computer hardware and computer system. It includes operating systems, device drivers, diagnostic tools, servers, windowing systems, utilities and more. The purpose of systems software is to insulate the applications programmer as much as possible from the details of the particular computer complex being use, especially memory and other hardware features, and such accessory devices as communications, printers, readers, displays, keyboards, etc.
    So if the above is true and generally accepted as such.... is the below a fair example of Vital vs Non-Vital:

    Vital: Device Drivers, Devices, servers, Kernel, Shell
    Non-Vital: Diagnostic Tools, Windowing Systems, Utilities,

    Should note that /boot is off in its own little world, but if needed to be categorized, it's clearly Vital

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banko
    bin = binary
    / = top level essential (or vital if you prefer)
    /usr = second level "SYSTEM" or Non-Essential "SYSTEM"
    s prefix = systems administration
    All are referenced to SYSTEM.... it's just a matter of at what level, importance, and purpose
    The thing is that no where on the FHS does it say that /usr is "system" files, all it says is that it's read-only and shareble. The only system files in /usr are in /usr/sbin! The items I quoted on my previous post come directly from the FHS, those were, word for word, what they say the directories are for. The FHS even has an optional folder called /usr/games for games and /usr/X11R6 for X binaries, which are obviously not "system" files.
    "Today you are freer than ever to do what you want, provided you can pay for it!" --Bad Religion

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