I'd like to hear opinions

[Amano]

I'd like to hear some thoughts regarding the advantages and disadvantages of using Linux. After some very bad experiences recently, I'm considering ditching Linux for a long time, maybe for good.

The difficulties in finding help (I searched the net for 2 hours looking for a solution to one problem, a problem that crippled my system, but couldn't find a concise, comprehensive explanation), the fact that installing simple packages such as codecs and media players results in weird, unpredictable behavior (my files in seemingly unrelated directories being deleted and me losing network connectivity as a result), and the unnecessary complexity inherent in accomplishing simple tasks (installing drivers, changing minor settings), and the cryptic nature of error messages are really telling me Linux is more trouble than it's worth. From what I understand, this increased control over system settings is supposed to give a user more power, but how much knowledge of the OS is required to use that power? Do I have to get a doctorate in Linux, cause I don't have time for that. So far, I haven't experienced any advantages...

Before you ask, I don't do anything extreme on my system; I almost never work as root, I don't go around randomly deleting files, I use package managers to install upgrades and such, so I don't see how much more cautious I can be, aside from downloading the source code for every aspect of the OS, learning it, then tracking the contents of data registers and address registers for every step taken by every process in real time (which would take years and turn anyone into a psychopath within a few hours). I'm exaggerating, but I think you get my drift.

So, why so you use Linux, and why should I keep using it? Will my system ever be stable? What are the advantages?

[devils casper]

why so you use Linux, and why should I keep using it? Will my system ever be stable? What are the advantages?

first of all read these two articles. Link1 Link2
do post back !







Casper

[techieMoe]

I'd like to hear some thoughts regarding the advantages and disadvantages of using Linux. After some very bad experiences recently, I'm considering ditching Linux for a long time, maybe for good.

The difficulties in finding help (I searched the net for 2 hours looking for a solution to one problem, a problem that crippled my system, but couldn't find a concise, comprehensive explanation), the fact that installing simple packages such as codecs and media players results in weird, unpredictable behavior (my files in seemingly unrelated directories being deleted and me losing network connectivity as a result),

Which distribution(s) were you using? That can make all the difference. Many people new to Linux don't realize that there are literally thousands of different versions of it, each with their own particular strengths and niche markets. Also, are you sure you were using the latest version? We commonly get questions about Redhat 9 even though it's roughly 4 years (and at least 4 major versions) old.

and the unnecessary complexity inherent in accomplishing simple tasks (installing drivers, changing minor settings),

What devices in particular were giving you trouble? Most devices don't require special drivers in Linux.

and the cryptic nature of error messages are really telling me Linux is more trouble than it's worth. From what I understand, this increased control over system settings is supposed to give a user more power, but how much knowledge of the OS is required to use that power? Do I have to get a doctorate in Linux, cause I don't have time for that. So far, I haven't experienced any advantages...

If you're not willing to sit down and learn a totally different way of using an OS, Linux is not for you. If you haven't already, I'd suggest you read the "Linux is NOT MS Windows" thread here:

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/lin...ead-first.html

It might give you an idea of what you're up against, and maybe help you decide if it's worth your time. We can't really tell you; it's a personal thing. If you're comfortable with Microsoft Windows or Apple OS X and you really don't have the time or motivation to learn something new, that's perfectly fine. Different OSes exist for different people so you can use what works for you. There's no shame in that.

There is shame in completely dismissing something you might actually like before taking a bit of time to learn what it really is. Like a new dish or dessert. You never really know until you try it.

[fingal]

I'd also be curious to know which distro you're using. Personally I've never seen a distro delete files without permission, and I've been using Linux for roughly 4 years now.

It really does take time to learn how to use it though, and I agree it's probably not for everyone. We've all had hurdles to overcome, but I use it because I have a very stable system, and I can more or less do what I want with it. I call it 'sustainable computing', because it's low on cost and high on rewards. Actually I mostly do it because it's fun. Without that 'fun factor' I would get bored and pack it in.

Sometimes explanations for things are hard to come by; I can agree on that. A forum like this can only tell you so much. Yep - error messages are often not descriptive at all, but even then there are ways around that. Wait until something goes wrong and you 'just fix it'. Then you realise how far you've come, and that using Linux can actually enhance your problem solving skills.

I certainly wouldn't want to start listing advantages and disadvantages however. I've seen a lot of posts like that and they're almost a challenge to justify using *nix as opposed to other systems. I just use it ... for me it works, and I don't like Windows. Essentially Linux is hard to begin with, and becomes more stable with experience. Windows is easy to begin with, and becomes less stable with experience. As for Macs? I really don't know about those.

[burntfuse]

I'd also be curious to know which distro you're using. Personally I've never seen a distro delete files without permission, and I've been using Linux for roughly 4 years now.

Same here, on a decent distro that shouldn't be happening (and I've never had it happen to me). If you want a distro that's as user-friendly as possible, try SuSE or Ubuntu. Some of your problems also might be from having proprietary hardware which doesn't have Linux drivers (most people shouldn't have to install drivers at all).

[antidrugue]

I'd like to hear some thoughts regarding the advantages and disadvantages of using Linux. After some very bad experiences recently, I'm considering ditching Linux for a long time, maybe for good.

If Linux doesn't do what you need do, simply use what works for you (cf techieMoe, 2006). Then again, you should perhaps try another distro, see if it fits better with you and your machine.

The difficulties in finding help (I searched the net for 2 hours looking for a solution to one problem, a problem that crippled my system, but couldn't find a concise, comprehensive explanation),

Yes, that is a bit true. Perhaps due to that fact that it is a free OS, so mainly it is a voluntary effort of documentation.

the fact that installing simple packages such as codecs and media players results in weird, unpredictable behavior (my files in seemingly unrelated directories being deleted and me losing network connectivity as a result), and the unnecessary complexity inherent in accomplishing simple tasks (installing drivers, changing minor settings), and

Suse (from your previous threads) ? Try something else : Ubuntu, Mandriva, etc.

the cryptic nature of error messages are really telling me Linux is more trouble than it's worth.

Actually I find Linux error messages quite precise and verbose once you get use to the words used. Google is your friend there.

So, why so you use Linux, and why should I keep using it? Will my system ever be stable? What are the advantages?

Linux can be very hard and frustrating in the beginning, particularly if you approach it with the "Windows way" of doing things. It is a completely different beast.

Keep trying and you'll see the light.

Good luck !

[Amano]

This reply is directed towards everyone who posted above; I'll answer your questions and give my feedback to your opinions and advice.

I began by installing Mandrake, but after encountering too many problems, I switched to Suse 10.0, which I'm using now.

In general, the vibe I'm getting is this: as I become more familiar with the OS and solve the problems that arise, it will become easier; that choosing a distro that meets your needs is important, that Linux is frugal but powerful, that the open-source nature of Linux has its perks and its drawbacks, and that a Windows mind-set can be an impediment.

I came to Linux aware of most of these things, as I realize that with anything new, it takes time. When I was first exposed to the concept of distros (which I found pretty cool, since it gives you choice), I took the time to read about all kinds of different ones, then made a decision. As for open-source, I've been thinking about the concept for the past week, and I can see it's influences on the way Linux operates. And as for clinging to Windows; I came to Linux because I wanted something different (but useful and functional and clever).

It's a feeling of powerlessness that's getting to me recently...The difficulties in relating cause and effect with regard to problems that surface in Linux makes it very difficult to prevent them from reoccurring. Let me list some of the problems I've had as examples.

Yesterday night, I updated my ALSA drivers using Smart, and everything went smoothly. Once I restarted the computer this morning, I got "error 25" from Grub, and my system would not boot. What gets to me is that despite all the references and explanations for 'error 25' that I found on the internet, I have no idea what exactly caused it. How did something as innocuous as installing sound drivers result in boot problems and a corrupt file system? No matter how much I search, I can't find out why, which means that this could happen again within an hour. It leaves me feeling that my system is out of my control and at that whether it functions reliably is practically a matter of chance. BTW, I tried to repair the corrupted file system but it failed --> reinstall.

Before that incident, I was installing xine libraries and amarok plug-ins. When I was done, I shutdown the system and came back an hour later to find that I had no internet connectivity because the files in my /etc/sysconfig/network/scripts folder had all been deleted. I don't see the connection between installing amarok plug-ins and losing all your network files, but I have no doubt there must be one, yet no one seems to be able to find it. I won't get into all the things I had to go through in trying to get those files back, but rest assured, it ALSO ended in a reinstall. Once again, I can't prevent what I don't understand, and that leaves me feeling understandably unsettled.

That most of you can't relate to having these kinds of problems is somewhat reassuring though; I'm not clear on how to go about achieving the stability you've acquired in your systems. Maybe it's my behavior when using the system...This early in the game, I'm not sure what's causing it.

As for your remarks techiemoe:

If you're not willing to sit down and learn a totally different way of using an OS, Linux is not for you. If you haven't already, I'd suggest you read the "Linux is NOT MS Windows" thread here:

and

If you're comfortable with Microsoft Windows or Apple OS X and you really don't have the time or motivation to learn something new, that's perfectly fine. Different OSes exist for different people so you can use what works for you. There's no shame in that.

There is shame in completely dismissing something you might actually like before taking a bit of time to learn what it really is. Like a new dish or dessert. You never really know until you try it.

The terms and concepts I've become familiar with (smart, alsa, kernel, distros, grub, lilo, ext2, reiserfs, rpm, yast and many more), I've acquired knowledge of within less than a week. I think the fact that I've learned all the above, and the fact that I've learned it quickly, is a testament to the exact opposite of your biased judgment of me as "unmotivated, impatient, unwilling to learn and intellectually rigid " (I may be a little impatient, but I'M admitting to that). I don't appreciate being labeled without justification (I don't appreciate labels in any form, for that matter).

In closing, I sure hope things work out. I'm going to try it out a bit more and see what happens. Talking about all these problems is giving me flashbacks of the frustration... Time to go do something else. :snooze:

[techieMoe]

I think the fact that I've learned all the above, and the fact that I've learned it quickly, is a testament to the exact opposite of your biased judgment of me as "unmotivated, impatient, unwilling to learn and intellectually rigid " (I may be a little impatient, but I'M admitting to that). I don't appreciate being labeled without justification (I don't appreciate labels in any form, for that matter).

Apparently you misunderstood my comments. I wasn't attempting to "label" you in any way; only acknowledge that different OSes work for different people, and for some, Linux just isn't worth the effort. That's perfectly fine. Those who know me around the forum will attest that I always encourage people to use whatever OS works best for them. Based on your original statement, I gathered that you were simply more comfortable using MS Windows. Perhaps I was wrong. That's great.

[fingal]

I notice you said you started out using Mandriva. Even though that's my distro of choice - and I'm well used to it - please be aware that it often includes a lot of 'bleeding edge' software. It's got much better over the years, but bugs aren't uncommon. Mine seems to have settled down following 2006! I haven't been tempted to change to 2007 though.

When I read about the problems you've been having, I think my face was probably a picture ... Updating ALSA should never impact on Grub, and there's no way files delete themselves. I wonder if you're using a firewall? I'm almost tempted to believe that you've been cracked into ... but even that seems unlikely somehow.

It's also very unlikely that there's any connection between installing Amarok plugins and the scripts you lost. Not directly anyway.

Well, I hope you manage to get your issues sorted out with Linux and end up having some more positive experiences.

[antidrugue]

If Suse or Mandrake don't work for you, try something else. Or try the latest version of those 2 instead (Suse 10.2 and Mandriva 2007).

Again, I wish you good luck !