fguy64

Greetings

I just installed the package gnome-core on a bare-bones debian lenny box, but after restarting I get no desktop, just the shell. Is this supposed to happen with gnome-core?

reed9

Yes. The gnome-core metapackage does not provide gdm, the gnome login manager.

Also, I don't think it pulls in the x windows system, also necessary. Assuming you have X installed, you can start GNOME without a login manager by adding an entry to the file ~/.xinitrc reading or if you have trouble with automounting you might need to do then type startx to launch the GUI.

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fguy64

Ok thanks. I took a step backwards and removed gnome-core, and I'm doing a little more research before my next step, and I found the following site, which seems helpful.

Window Managers for X

Now, here they say that Gnome needs to be run in conjunction with a window manager, sawfish is mentioned in this regard, and they say that sawfish ships with gnome.

So my question is: is gdm just another window manager, on a par with sawfish, or is it separate?

Anyways, I'm just hacking on a spare machine, the purpose is to experiment, the idea is to build up the system in small steps, so i figure that maybe I should install xorg first, along with a window manager and play with that a bit, before adding a proper desktop environment.

Jonathan183

I think the default WM for Gnome in Metacity, but Sawfish used to be the default WM for Gnome. GDM is the Gnome Display Manager ... its a graphical login program rather than a Window Manager.

If your building things up gradually then try Xorg and add Fluxbox or IceWM, and use startx with relevant entry in ~/.xinitrc to pick the Window Manager ... actually try adding a couple of applications and try starting them direct using exec ... in ~/.xinitrc as well

reed9

The GNOME window manager is metacity, but GNOME can be run with other window managers. The most common, or at least well known, alternative window manager used with GNOME is probably Compiz Fusion.

GDM is the GNOME Display Manager, which handles logging in and registering with the X server.

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fguy64

Ok, thanks. When you say that Metacity is the Gnome window manager, I suppose that is reflected in the fact that on the package page for gnome-core Debian -- Details of package gnome-core in lenny , Metacity is listed as depends under related packages. Which tells me Metacity is part of the gnome-core download? The fact that the display manager is not listed as depends suggests to me that it is not required, although I imagine it is part of gnome-desktop-environment which is listed under recommends.

Just to generalize about these package pages, my take is that those packages that is listed as depends are included as part of the main (meta?) package.

Thanks to Jonathon also.

reed9

Yes, depends means the package will be pulled in when you installed the package. These packages are often required for the original software to work correctly (or at all), whereas in Ubuntu, recommends are packages that add functionalilty the majority of people will probably want, but isn't required for basic operation, and suggests usually add more niche functionality.

This is a little simplified, since you might notice that the same package in a distro like Arch has far fewer dependencies than in Ubuntu. Take as an example the burning application, Brasero.

Ubuntu package

Arch Package

Now, because of packaging differences it may be that it only looks like fewer dependecies, because one of the dependencies will pull in a whole ton of stuff, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. The two main additions from Ubuntu here are the launchpad integration, and gconf (which ends up pulling in python and a whole bunch of other stuff.)

Then there are meta-packages, which are just packages built with the sole purpose of pulling in a bunch of software of a kind, like basic build tools with the build-essential package in Ubuntu, or ubuntu-restricted-extras.

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fguy64

Thanks, I sometimes get uptight for a while about knowing exactly what goes on my machine, then usually I decide it's not worth worrying about.

Anyways, you post helps a lot. I can see how all of these dependencies really add up. For example, the gnome package (with the extras) lists a dependency called hal-cups-utils which in turn lists cups itself, so with the full gnome you get the cups.

Anyways, back to the original topic, I guess I'll go with xorg and a window manager (may as well be Metacity), and see what kind of mileage I can get out of that before adding gnome-core to give me a more modern desktop environment, with gdm to follow.