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I need a stable, long-term supported desktop, but I also sometimes can't live without the newest, bleeding edge software available (such as GNOME 3.8 ). So for a stable, long-term ...
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  1. #1
    Just Joined! Pyrobisqit's Avatar
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    Chroot other Linux distros


    I need a stable, long-term supported desktop, but I also sometimes can't live without the newest, bleeding edge software available (such as GNOME 3.8 ).
    So for a stable, long-term supported distro, it's gonna be Debian obviously. But I also really like Arch and Ubuntu because they're way ahead of Debian.

    So my ideal scenario would be this:
    The secure, rock-solid-robust and stable Debian as a base.
    On top of that, run other distros such as Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, etc.

    There's virtualization but it takes a huge toll in performance and stability. So I thought about chroot.

    Now I'm not expecting a point-and-click setup of a chrooted Arch inside of Debian, but is there a way to do this? I mean, is it even possible?

    I'm willing to tweak the system as much as needed to get my objective, and I'm absolutely not afraid of the command line, since I'm a sysadmin in my free time anyways.

    If anyone could be so good as to point me in the right direction, I'd be really grateful.

    If there are more optimal solutions than VMs or chrooted environments, please let me know (no, it's not acceptable to add repositories in Debian, as third party repositories might not be as exahustively checked as the official repositories).

    Thank you all! I really don't know where to begin.

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    Do I understand you well, you want to run several ( or 2 at least ) different linux's at one time on one system without a virtualisation tool ?

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    Just Joined! Pyrobisqit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuifje View Post
    Do I understand you well, you want to run several ( or 2 at least ) different linux's at one time on one system without a virtualisation tool ?
    That's correct. Preferably the way with the least performance hit. From what I know, chrooted environments are the optimal solution for this. Even if it's technically complicated, I just know if it can be done, and how to do it correctly.

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    sure, you could set up a chrooted environment of some other distro, but you would just be running a bunch of command line tools. you wouldn't be running a separate kernel, or X server. you would be re-using the same networking environment, too. how much do you expect to accomplish with your chrooted Linux environment? they are usually reserved for specific needs, like a cross-compiling tool chain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atreyu View Post
    sure, you could set up a chrooted environment of some other distro, but you would just be running a bunch of command line tools. you wouldn't be running a separate kernel, or X server. you would be re-using the same networking environment, too. how much do you expect to accomplish with your chrooted Linux environment? they are usually reserved for specific needs, like a cross-compiling tool chain.
    Basically a low-manteinance environment, stable that changes as little as possible. And then, chrooted environments for testing new, bleeding edge software, or sandboxed environments that can be obliterated if infected, etc.

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    Trusted Penguin Irithori's Avatar
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    Then use virtualization.
    It is stable, telling from professional (multiple hundreds of VMs) and private use (a few less )
    And with todays hardware, the performance impact is acceptable.
    My recommendation for private use would be virtualbox as a type 2 hypervisor.
    You must always face the curtain with a bow.

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    Just Joined! Pyrobisqit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irithori View Post
    Then use virtualization.
    It is stable, telling from professional (multiple hundreds of VMs) and private use (a few less )
    And with todays hardware, the performance impact is acceptable.
    My recommendation would be virtualbox for a type 2 hypervisor.
    As I said, this is not acceptable. I'm going to be compilling software in the chroots, and my machine isn't that powerful (Core 2 Duo) to run a virtualized instance smoothly. I need a fluid and stable experience, and as far as I can tell, Virtualbox is "stable enough", but it sometimes crashes, or has problems with drivers (which chroots don't need at all).

    EDIT: Bear in mind I'm going to be spending about 75% of my time on the chroots, instead of the "host", because the host is going to be a barebones setup with a few apps here and there and not much else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrobisqit View Post
    Basically a low-manteinance environment, stable that changes as little as possible. And then, chrooted environments for testing new, bleeding edge software, or sandboxed environments that can be obliterated if infected, etc.
    if you truly can't use virtualization, as Irithori suggests (and I agree), then be prepared for a less than ideal set up, and lots of configuration management.

    if the target platform for which you are building is Fedora, CentOS, or RHEL, then check out mock. i use it on my Fedora box to build RPMs (i.e., a compiler tool-chain) for the above 3 distros and it works just fine. It uses a chrooted environment type setup.

    Mock is also available on Ubuntu.

    You can also use Pbuilder for Ubuntu, which does roughly the same thing as Mock: create packages for Ubuntu/Debian in a chrooted environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atreyu View Post
    if you truly can't use virtualization, as Irithori suggests (and I agree), then be prepared for a less than ideal set up, and lots of configuration management.

    if the target platform for which you are building is Fedora, CentOS, or RHEL, then check out mock. i use it on my Fedora box to build RPMs (i.e., a compiler tool-chain) for the above 3 distros and it works just fine. It uses a chrooted environment type setup.

    Mock is also available on Ubuntu.

    You can also use Pbuilder for Ubuntu, which does roughly the same thing as Mock: create packages for Ubuntu/Debian in a chrooted environment.
    Virtualization is not acceptable. My machine isn't powerful enough to run a VM. And this is where I'm gonna spend 75% of my time, so I need a fluid and consistent experience.

    Neither Pbuilder or Mock are really the way to go. These projects are for building untrusted packages in controlled environments. Not for building chrooted environments, but using chrooted environments to build packages. (Not the same thing!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrobisqit View Post
    Neither Pbuilder or Mock are really the way to go. These projects are for building untrusted packages in controlled environments. Not for building chrooted environments, but using chrooted environments to build packages. (Not the same thing!)
    yeah, i know what they. i was trying to save you some time by avoiding the need to build your own chroot.

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