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i see. in that case, give FreeBSD a try - it can't hurt....
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  1. #11
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    i see. in that case, give FreeBSD a try - it can't hurt.

  2. #12
    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
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    Ok. Now I remember the grocery list of problems I had the *last* time I tried this. Let's see if we can fix them this time. Let me first say that I am not at all impressed with the lack of auto-configuring that FreeBSD does. I know that this is probably because the maintainers want the enduser to have as much configurability as possible, but Linux distros I've used are leaps and bounds easier to get into than this.

    Install went fine. The package selection was sorely lacking basic programs that I like to use, such as nano. Since I have no internet connection, I expect an OS to provide enough of my basic tools out of the box.

    There was no option to choose a USB mouse in the Mouse configuration dialog for sysinstall. I was forced to plug in my KB/mouse to the PS/2 ports. I do not want to do this. How can I configure this to use USB instead?

    Also, when I plugged the mouse in PS/2, the IntelliMouse driver would not work correctly. I am stuck using the "auto" protocol which does not allow me to use my scroll wheel. I attempted to use the protocol "IMPS/2" which works in Linux, but this resulted in errors and X not starting.

    The boot menu that pops up (which is very plain BTW), does not allow me to boot into my Linux partition. I do not know how FreeBSD handles device names (nor do I have the foggiest idea what bootloader FreeBSD uses by default) so I can't figure out how to fix this.

    The "nv" driver for Xorg results in a "no screens found" error. The only way to get Xorg working is to use the "vesa" driver. Any idea why this wouldn't work?

    The official Nvidia drivers would not compile, saying I was missing some header files called machine/x86.h and machine/.././linux/linux.h. I did some research and found that the reason for this is that Nvidia's FreeBSD driver does not support AMD64, and according to the Nvidia official forum, they will not be supporting it any time in the near future. This is a deal-breaker for me.

    Finally, this is not necessarily a problem confined to FreeBSD. I opted to try out Gnome in X. How do I configure either xdm or gdm to start up at boot? (What's the FreeBSD equivalent to runlevel 5? I know it doesn't have runlevels.)

    I will keep this on my system for a few more days and continue to tinker with it out of respect, but I don't see this OS replacing my Linux systems any time soon. Even if I could fix all the problems above there remains the issue of no 3D acceleration and no way for me to get new packages onto the system save downloading the packages by hand. This is not an option. Nevertheless, thanks for all your help.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    Ok. Now I remember the grocery list of problems I had the *last* time I tried this. Let's see if we can fix them this time. Let me first say that I am not at all impressed with the lack of auto-configuring that FreeBSD does. I know that this is probably because the maintainers want the enduser to have as much configurability as possible, but Linux distros I've used are leaps and bounds easier to get into than this.
    that is indeed correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    Install went fine. The package selection was sorely lacking basic programs that I like to use, such as nano. Since I have no internet connection, I expect an OS to provide enough of my basic tools out of the box.
    linux and freebsd are different in that freebsd divides the installation into base system and third party packages. the emphasis is on configuring and setting up the base system in the install, and the packages are sort of a side note (notice how it prompts you on whether or not you even want to install any thrid party apps). unfortunately freebsd is more oriented towards the internet and getting software that way (it is a server OS, after all).

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    There was no option to choose a USB mouse in the Mouse configuration dialog for sysinstall. I was forced to plug in my KB/mouse to the PS/2 ports. I do not want to do this. How can I configure this to use USB instead?
    what you were configuring was moused, the mouse daemon. there should've been an option for usb, not sure why it wasn't there. but what's important is setting up x, which, since 5.3, is not done during the install anymore. xorgcfg has options for usb mouse and keyboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    Also, when I plugged the mouse in PS/2, the IntelliMouse driver would not work correctly. I am stuck using the "auto" protocol which does not allow me to use my scroll wheel. I attempted to use the protocol "IMPS/2" which works in Linux, but this resulted in errors and X not starting.
    all you had to do was add
    Code:
    Option   "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
    under the mouse section. (substitute button numbers 4 and 5 for whatever they are for the scroll on your specific mouse).

    just as a side note, xorg is not FreeBSD. any linux distro that uses xfree or xorg can be configured exactly the same way as you would in FreeBSD, it's just that linux distros tend to spoil you with wizards, etc. keep in mind the FreeBSD people leave xorg and other third party software completely unmodified - which is precisely the point. so these problems are actually not FreeBSD related.

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    The boot menu that pops up (which is very plain BTW), does not allow me to boot into my Linux partition. I do not know how FreeBSD handles device names (nor do I have the foggiest idea what bootloader FreeBSD uses by default) so I can't figure out how to fix this.
    freebsd uses the freebsd boot manager . it's pretty plain indeed, but should boot up linux and other OSes installed. sysinstall asks a pretty strangely worded question on the bootloader, which many people mistake. you might have asked it to install the boot loader but not the boot manager (tricky, eh?). whatever the case is, most people with linux and freebsd on their system just use grub or lilo. if you are familiar with configuring these, then that's a better option.

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    The "nv" driver for Xorg results in a "no screens found" error. The only way to get Xorg working is to use the "vesa" driver. Any idea why this wouldn't work?
    again, another xorg question and not a freebsd question, but i understand the annoyingness with which the vanilla x window system works. without knowing exactly what you did, i'm going to make a guess - something i did initially as well. it asks when setting up the video card if you'd like to look at the "card database." this is not the database of actual drivers such as "nv", etc., but a database of information specific to your card's model. for example, i have a geforce fx 5200 and my first time around chose something similar (like "geforce fx" or something of the like). the fact of the matter is, even though i used the "nv" driver, it was expecting certain things about my hardware that didn't exist cause i didn't choose the exact card model. it wasn't in the database, so the solution was to say "no" to "do you want to look at the card databse" and then selecting "nv". xorg can be mean to you sometimes, especially without the help of wizards that don't have tricky wording.

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    The official Nvidia drivers would not compile, saying I was missing some header files called machine/x86.h and machine/.././linux/linux.h. I did some research and found that the reason for this is that Nvidia's FreeBSD driver does not support AMD64, and according to the Nvidia official forum, they will not be supporting it any time in the near future. This is a deal-breaker for me.
    can you link me to a source on this? i wouldn't be surprised, i guess, but you can always use "nv", but you'll be lacking in opengl support, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    Finally, this is not necessarily a problem confined to FreeBSD. I opted to try out Gnome in X. How do I configure either xdm or gdm to start up at boot? (What's the FreeBSD equivalent to runlevel 5? I know it doesn't have runlevels.)
    the freebsd handbook is your friend: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...ook/x-xdm.html (just substitute "xdm" with "gdm" or whatever).

    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    I will keep this on my system for a few more days and continue to tinker with it out of respect, but I don't see this OS replacing my Linux systems any time soon. Even if I could fix all the problems above there remains the issue of no 3D acceleration and no way for me to get new packages onto the system save downloading the packages by hand. This is not an option. Nevertheless, thanks for all your help.
    yes indeed. this just goes to show that freebsd is still more oriented towards being a server (connected to the internet) that doesn't run x. if you get the opportunity, it's always fun to play with freebsd. but it just might not be suitable for what you're doing.

  4. #14
    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
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    yes indeed. this just goes to show that freebsd is still more oriented towards being a server (connected to the internet) that doesn't run x. if you get the opportunity, it's always fun to play with freebsd. but it just might not be suitable for what you're doing.
    Yes, I will play with the next release, since I'm an OS junkie. I'm sure BSD is great for servers and/or workstations that are connected to the internet, neither of which fit my particular situation. I've given FreeBSD a few shots (this isn't the first time I've installed it, as I mentioned in previous posts), and determined that not unlike certain Linux distributions, it's just not where I need it to be right now. Thanks.
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  5. #15
    Linux Engineer adrenaline's Avatar
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    I do have an extra computer hooked to the internet. It is a P3 1 G with 512 ram and Geforce 2 card. I am going to install freeBSD tonight or tomorrow night. I will keep you posted I am sure I will have lots of questions.
    Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really embodies the grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen a angry penguin charging at them in excess of 100mph. They'd be a lot more careful about what they say if they had.
    -- Linus Torvalds

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by techieMoe
    Ok, that brings me to a deal-breaker question. Is it worth my time installing FreeBSD on a system that has no internet access?
    Depends on what you want to use it for. If the answer is "web browsing," I can't help you...

  7. #17
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    I've tried FreeBSD 4.x and 5.x, as well as FreeSBIE and none of them seem to like my USB mouse/keyboard or my 3D card (Geforce 6800). Are any of the other BSDs (Open, Net, DragonFly) focused on the desktop enduser? I've read that FreeBSD was supposed to have the best support for new gizmos, but is there something better?
    I wouldn't be too sure of that. FreeBSD is more like a server and workstation OS, so new hardware support would be limited especially for new gizmos that doesn't add any functions a server would need.

    The version of FreeBSD I tried was 5.3 RELEASE if I'm not mistaken. It installed fine but X was a no-go. I imagine I probably could have tweaked it but I'm a little spoiled by Linux distros like SuSE lately that configure all that for me.
    **Never ever ask this question on the FreeBSD mailing list.** If you do, I can gurantee you that you will get a handful of RTFM.
    Use xorg - configure if you don't want to manually edit the configuration.

    Might it be possible to download sections of the /ports/ tree to CD and transplant them to my home computer?
    Shouldn't be a problem. Only twenty something megabytes.

    Install went fine. The package selection was sorely lacking basic programs that I like to use, such as nano. Since I have no internet connection, I expect an OS to provide enough of my basic tools out of the box.
    With one installation CD, you can't really expect everything to be on it. :P

    Also, when I plugged the mouse in PS/2, the IntelliMouse driver would not work correctly. I am stuck using the "auto" protocol which does not allow me to use my scroll wheel. I attempted to use the protocol "IMPS/2" which works in Linux, but this resulted in errors and X not starting.
    Choose sysmouse for PS/2. It tells you right on top of the selection menu. Got to read that stuff man.

    The "nv" driver for Xorg results in a "no screens found" error. The only way to get Xorg working is to use the "vesa" driver. Any idea why this wouldn't work?
    Did you match the screen settings to the correct card?
    http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO.../x-config.html

    Yes, I will play with the next release, since I'm an OS junkie. I'm sure BSD is great for servers and/or workstations that are connected to the internet, neither of which fit my particular situation. I've given FreeBSD a few shots (this isn't the first time I've installed it, as I mentioned in previous posts), and determined that not unlike certain Linux distributions, it's just not where I need it to be right now. Thanks.
    You can't just give up because it's hard to get it to work. I have given FreeBSD more than a "few" shots when I first started. Linux is user friendly, but it's gonna spoil you .

    Enoch

  8. #18
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    Try this document

    Hey, here is a walk-thru that may help you.

    http://www.REMOVED.com/guides/index.php

    It uses KDE instead of Gnome as a basis but it explains how to setup Xorg, KDE and KDM (use the same steps for Gnome and GDM).

    As for hardware, FreeBSD actually supports more internal hardware than most linux distros. I don't know about "gizmos" but my camera works great with the camera port installed?

    Did you apply the following two ports?

    nvidia-driver
    nvidia-settings

    Also, you are going to have much better luck getting answers on FreeBSD if you post to www.REMOVED.org instead of here.

  9. #19
    Linux Guru techieMoe's Avatar
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    Although I certainly appreciate the help people continue to try and offer on this thread, I have long ago decided to cease playing with FreeBSD at this point in its development. I may pick it up again a few versions down the road, but for now I no longer even have the CDs.
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