"5 hours ago"? huh?

[MatthewGx]

Unless you can give me objective reasoning, it's opinion. We could show the exact date/time the post was taken for everyone, but odds are majority of the users don't have the correct timezone/time set. In addition, it's easier to read "5 hours ago" than calculate the difference between a date/time. It's usability... it's easier. Simplicity... KISS method. It's not meant to be insulting to the userbase that they can't calculate time... it's simply easier to read.

Inconvenience, I fail to see and understand. I see it more as a convenience that I don't have to manually calculate and figure out time difference (if I even am concerned about it, which I mostly am not... if it's old, it's at the top in a thread or it's near the bottom of a forum view with all the threads... maybe I'm not too concerened because I don't use forums enough, but I don't think so). I see it as users not needing to have their timezone/times set correctly... two less things for someone to do in this busy world. In addition, If a post was 2 weeks ago or 2.5 weeks ago, I don't think the precision *really* matters.

Pointless hidden data, not really. That data is used to calculate the "5 hours ago" timestamp.

I see this as change for the better for the sake of usability and nothing more.

Trust me, wje_lf, I want to be on the same page as you (and a few others that I respect on these boards who are of the same opinion). I want to understand... but I simply don't get the practicality of the other timestamp versus what we have. I don't think it's because I'm that disconnected from reality... I don't feel someone has articulated some solid objective evidence that blows me away. In the meantime, I see more positives than negatives with the format we currently have.

Again, I want to help and make things better and I'm frustrated that vBulletin can't give this option to the end user... but in the meantime we need to stick with something... and I vote for usability. If someone can articulate otherwise and provide some examples that are obvious wins for the other timestamp, let me know... I have an open mind.

[wje_lf]

MatthewGx, I'm embarrassed that I have pulled you into this time-consuming discussion. I didn't mean to drag it out this long!

Nonetheless, I am grateful that you are listening. My goal at this point is not to convince you, but to satisfy any curiosity that you may have. I'm taking it as a given that things will, and probably should, stay the same at linuxforums.

My main motive for responding is so that you're not left hanging. That would not be polite of me.

Unless you can give me objective reasoning, it's opinion.

Not opinion, exactly, but something close to opinion: different perspective.

The following is not objective reasoning, but just my perspective.

If someone just asks a question and I post an answer, that's simple, and I don't care about the format of the timestamp. But if a dialog ensues, then the rhythm of the dialog can be inferred by running my eye up along the timestamps, particularly if there are more than two people involved. Is the guy sitting at his computer, jumping on each reply? On an extended dialog, is it just a morning-evening thing each day? Things like that affect how polite (or how firm) I am in suggesting (if this is appropriate) that he read the appropriate documentation, and how much time I invest in guessing what the question should really be, which happens sometimes. Compared to face to face meetings, the written word has poor bandwidth, and every clue, such as the rhythm of the discussion, helps.

I know you want concrete scenarios where a consistently precise timestamp would be useful. I feel inadequate in using this example, because it doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the richness of the dialog that's watered down when timestamp precision erodes over time. It's very difficult to express in words how that is so, and this leaves you without the necessary information about the advantage of a more precise timestamp.

We could show the exact date/time the post was taken for everyone, but odds are majority of the users don't have the correct timezone/time set.

And that's one of the reasons I'm not really too concerned about this issue. I take it for granted that you know what most of your community wants and needs. Obviously not all Linux advice sites come to your same conclusion, but it's their job to decide this for them, your job to decide this for you, and not my job to do either. (I.e., better you than me! :)

In addition, it's easier to read "5 hours ago" than calculate the difference between a date/time.

If there's more than one post in a thread, the only way that "5 hours ago" is easier is if you need to know the difference between the current time and the time of the most recent post. As soon as you start needing the difference between the times of two posts (adjacent or not), if the dialog goes for more than a couple of hours, it all descends into what I see as imprecise mush.

It's usability... it's easier.

We have common ground here. You want what's more usable and what's easier. So do I. We disagree on just how to do that.

It's not meant to be insulting to the userbase that they can't calculate time... it's simply easier to read.

Idiot lights in cars aren't meant to be insulting either. They are, arguably, easier to read. The same thing would apply if we had a series of, say, four lights to indicate how much gas is in the tank. That's much easier to read than a gauge, but it won't always help me decide whether I can make it to Bakersfield with the gas I have in my car.

If a post was 2 weeks ago or 2.5 weeks ago, I don't think the precision *really* matters.

It does to me, if there are other posts around that same time frame. I can't be breaking out a sheet of paper to keep track manually of when each post is added, so several weeks from now I can know this data. I also can't be writing a specialized browser client at this end to make linuxforums data easier to use.

Pointless hidden data, not really. That data is used to calculate the "5 hours ago" timestamp.

And after that calculation the more precise parts of the data are hidden. From me. :)

Trust me, wje_lf, I want to be on the same page as you (and a few others that I respect on these boards who are of the same opinion). I want to understand.

I have never doubted this. We are discussing a user interface issue here. I'm here because that issue interests me.

I see more positives than negatives with the format we currently have.

Again, understood. It's not my goal to change your mind.

One person uses manual transmission; another, automatic. It is difficult for each to persuade the other that his way is safer.

One person skis cross country, another downhill. It is difficult for each to persuade the other that his way brings him closer to nature.

provide some examples that are obvious wins for the other timestamp, let me know... I have an open mind.

Again, I have no doubt. This qualifies as a religious issue. Those who don't care, don't care. Those who care one way or the other, to the point where the "wrong" choice makes it difficult to work (or, as in my case, play, since giving advice qualifies as play) will go to a site which makes their activity easier for them.

Again, I'm grateful for the time you've spent on this. I dont' expect anything to change.

[MatthewGx]

*nods at different perspective*

Aha! I want to thank you for taking the time to further articulate your thoughts. And no worries about this being a time-consuming issue... I want to understand so I can be better... I'm willing if you're willing. Thanks for your useful analogies too, if anything, it helped to further reaffirm our discussions.

I'll update this thread if things do change, I find some plugin, or if we implement such a feature in the future. Otherwise, I look forward to the New Year... may you do the same.

Enjoy the holidays

[wje_lf]

If something interesting in this area comes up, respond to this thread or email me; I'll check probably once a week at least. (I don't do much email.)

In the meantime, Happy New Year yourself!

Peace out.