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Originally Posted by reed9 Hmm, in fact, among readers of Linux Journal at least, Arch has more users than Mint does. And the various *buntus have a whopping 31% of ...
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by reed9 View Post
    Hmm, in fact, among readers of Linux Journal at least, Arch has more users than Mint does. And the various *buntus have a whopping 31% of the users.
    DIT: 42 more users at the time of this writing. An auspicious number indeed.
    I am sure it also easy to find some sort of journal that will rank your personal flavor of choice abov3 all others.

    Distrowatch is the generally accepted source for these stats, as*this is their primary mission.

    Now obviously, if you have editors of a journal being anti-something and pro-somethingelse, I bet you that we can predict the results of their readership's preferences quite easily.

    Stick to recognized and unbiased sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reed9 View Post
    I personally am against splintering into too many subforums.

    So long as Mint is binary compatible with Ubuntu (and in fact uses the Ubuntu repos), I don't see a reason to have a separate forum. In the mods want to name it Ubuntu/Mint as they do Redhat/Fedora, that seems fine.

    Just as if SimplyMepis regained its old popularity, I would be against splintering it from the Debian forum so long as it's binary compatible with Debian.

    But while we're on the subject, Arch Linux has been ranked higher than Slackware and significantly higher than Gentoo for some time now, so why doesn't it get a subform in the main section, instead of being lumped in with, gasp, Linspire, in a sub-subforum.
    Yes, I know, I hear that a lot. But if Mint were that much the same, there would NOT be a 2 month lag cycle for Mint releases after an Ubuntu release!
    And is it were that much the same, Mint would be forgotten, rather than so very strong in popularity.

    Following your logic, Ubuntu users would go to the Debian forum.
    Or, why not just have ONE huge enormous anarchic form throwing everything into one big spaghetti mess.

    Good idea Einstein. Thanks so much for your support in making people's lives better, especially those who do not make the same personal choices as you are able to make as an expert user.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozar View Post
    Thanks for the reply, Timmi.

    I think you might be misunderstanding the page hits chart at DistroWatch. Page hit rankings have nothing to do with distribution downloads. They only indicate how many people have clicked on that distribution link at DistroWatch, and of course that doesn't download the distribution. So far as I know, DistroWatch doesn't track distribution downloads at all, so that would make your first "according to DistroWatch.com" statement incorrect.

    That said, I don't know how many people actually download Mint, or how many Mint users show up here on these forums, but we don't get all that many Mint questions. However, Mint is one of the distributions often recommended to those that come here looking for help in picking their first distribution.

    As stated earlier, only the full admins here have control over what forums are on the board so one of them will have to answer any questions about that.

    Thanks again for the feedback.
    I think they do.. but regardless... if they don't actually track downloads, that would make Ubuntu numbers look even worse:
    Mint users are told to go visit the Ubuntu site for help on items that pertain to Ubuntu and not the Mint-specific improvements... upping the Ubuntu numbers by as much as a third more than what it may be otherwise.

    But I do believe that they track downloads... otherwise, HOW does one explain the phenomena that when a new Ubuntu release is out, the Mint numbers drop way down, and when Mint finally releases the new version, Ubuntu numbers plummet and Mint numbers skyrocket? If it were only page hits, you would think Mint users are hitting the site more than ever, to constantly check on the new version's availability and progress of the Beta releases.

    I understand that only the full admins have control... I never assumed that you did... but I AM assuming that the full admins DO read this stuff.

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozar View Post
    Hi, reed... I see nothing wrong with your comment either way. It might very well be that Arch deserves a better placeholder on the forums, but I generally go to the official forums should I need help with anything.
    Thanks for the feedback!
    You see, this brings up an extremely strong argument for a dedicated Mint subforum.
    Currently, Mint users have no place to go, to get unified help.
    They have to subscribe to the Mint forums for Mint-specific questions, the Ubuntu forums for the Ubuntu part, and nowhere to go for help when things are supposed to work together.

    Mint is understaffed and can't handle tech support for Ubuntu, and Ubuntu turns up their noses at Mint users. If Mint users had a sub-forum here, they would have much better interaction, information exchange, and help among peers.

    Currently Mint users are left in somewhat of a void. They really need this. And if you have any interest at all in increasing users on this site, whatever the motives may be, given the size of the Mint community this would definitely be a great way to increase your membership noticeably.

  5. #15
    oz
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    regarding DistroWatch tracking downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
    I think they do..

    But I do believe that they track downloads...
    If you'll take a look at the DistroWatch FAQ, down toward the bottom of the list of questions, there is a question about the page hits ranking list you referenced above and nowhere in there does the owner indicate that there is any tracking of distribution downloads. In fact, he admits that the numbers may not always reflect even the popularity of distributions correctly:

    Admittedly, the page clicks by themselves may not always reflect the popularity correctly, but they should, over time, provide an indication about what is hot among the readers frequenting these pages.
    For that reason, I still believe you to be incorrect.
    oz

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    OK, lets not trip over the flower pattern in the rug here! If we re-read the quote that you submitted "but they should, over time, provide an indication about what is hot among the readers frequenting these pages", we could also interpret that, being a disclaimer (they don't want to be sued), they STILL believe that it is a pretty good indicator.

    It's not about tripping over words and being right or wrong. No one will shove their distro of choice down your throat. Don't feel endangered here! We are substantiating that Mint should have a subforum because of the reasons put forward, in #1 and #14 (and your #13 and #15 - thanks for helping out).

    But if your interpretation stood (#13), that would make Mint rank even better and Ubuntu not as well, as they are respectively being ranked right now. Lending further support to having a Mint forum.

    Of course, all would be easier if Ubuntu just embraced the Mint team and brought them on board... but there is obviously something going on behind the scenes we are not being made aware of that is preventing that from happening.

    I joined the Linux community only recently: a couple of years ago. I tried dozens of distributions. As a user coming from Windoze (my route was CP/M, Apple-II DOS, PC/MS-DOS, Windoze) and a guy who hasn't installed a LAN or tinkered with computers since the 90's (and not wanting to be bothered with that anymore), I learned firsthand how difficult it is for someone to join the Linux community. And it is probably because of my background that I didn't let myself get discouraged by all the sticks being put into the spokes of the wheels my desire for going to Linux was riding on.

    First, the "right" distro is hard to find - the choices are overwhelming and confusing (you have to become knowledgeable even before trying it out!) - then it doesn't mean it will work on your hardware (Puppy's WPA support is defective (antiX doesn't support it at all), Ubuntu doesn't detect and configure your wifi automatically and its confusing to find in the submenus, Knoppix thinks you're blind and out of the box talks to you, Zenwalk claims to be user-friendly when in fact it is noob-hostile (as is their help), and I can go on and on and on and on ab out different distros I've tried... and CONTINUED to try even since I'd installed Mint on my laptop. Trying to prove myself wrong, always trying to find better... it's always the OTHER distros that always throw me BACK into the arms of Mint!

    For newcomers, Mint is definitely the one that will work on just about ANY hardware... but once you've found Mint... comes the THIRD point: support... you can't get unified help... and it happens to be one of the biggest distros out there now. This popularity surely takes many by surprise... I remember when I discovered it, they were only coming out of being marginal... and it's acceptance has skyrocketed since a year (they must be doing something right!).

    So, it's one of the most popular, and contrary to all others, doesn't have unified support/help because it is expected that we'll turn to Ubuntu for some of it... meaning that if we had a Mint forum here on Linuxforums, it would be a MAJOR go-to for the entire Mint community!
    Even improving linuxforums' ranking and popularity... OK, it may leave our Arch user cold, but it would be good the us all, overall.

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    I am sure it also easy to find some sort of journal that will rank your personal flavor of choice abov3 all others.

    Distrowatch is the generally accepted source for these stats, as*this is their primary mission.

    Now obviously, if you have editors of a journal being anti-something and pro-somethingelse, I bet you that we can predict the results of their readership's preferences quite easily.

    Stick to recognized and unbiased sources.
    Wow, no need to get so defensive or rude. Linux Journal is not some Arch fanboy rag. They did a survey of their readers, they didn't push any particular distribution, and that's how the numbers turned out. Ubuntu got a couple thousand votes and no other distro even broke a thousand. One might guess a bias towards more "expert" distros, if you assume readers of a linux journal would generally be more advanced linux users, except again, Ubuntu took a massive lead. Whatever bias there may or may not be, there's certainly no reason to assume it's less objective than page hits at distrowatch.

    Following your logic, Ubuntu users would go to the Debian forum.
    Or, why not just have ONE huge enormous anarchic form throwing everything into one big spaghetti mess.

    Good idea Einstein. Thanks so much for your support in making people's lives better, especially those who do not make the same personal choices as you are able to make as an expert user.
    Your assumptions are showing. I'm not an expert user. I have just over two years of linux experience and no educational or professional background with computers or computer science. Arch is for competent users, you don't have to know everything about linux, just be capable of learning.

    Ubuntu is based on Debian, but not binary compatible with Debian. I like Mint and think it's definitely more than Ubuntu with green wallpaper, but it does use Ubuntu repos and almost any guide or tutorial you find for Ubuntu will work exactly as is for Mint. That is not the case for Ubuntu and Debian.

    If you're unhappy with linuxforums, check out linuxquestions.org. They have a sub-forum for just about everything and in general is much larger. Personally, I think it's a mess, but have at it. Or of course, there are the actual Linux Mint forums, which are quite active.

  8. #18
    oz
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    Guys, this thread has taken a rather sharp downward spiral so I'm locking it until further notice. The subject of the thread will be discussed in the admin forum and the steps considered appropriate will be taken upon completion of that discussion.

    Thanks again to all for the feedback.
    oz

  9. #19
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    quick update

    Ok, this forum request has been discussed in the admin forum and it was decided unanimously that we will not be implementing a Linux Mint Forum at the current time.

    Thanks once again to all for the feedback, comments, and suggestions.
    oz

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