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i dunno what distro you use, but certainly in arch they force us to install nothing more than the kernel and the basic gnu utilities...
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  1. #21
    Linux Guru coopstah13's Avatar
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    i dunno what distro you use, but certainly in arch they force us to install nothing more than the kernel and the basic gnu utilities

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by coopstah13 View Post
    i suppose if you only need one application at a time to use the sound then that is fine, but otherwise you need a mixer like pulse or ESD

    I purposefully install pulseaudio on arch linux and have no problems with it whatsoever
    what r u talking about?!?!? i use lots of audio apps at the same time. most synced up through midi.
    so your statement makes no sense to me....and isn't ESD a somewhat dead project?(i could be wrong).

    i don't need PA. all that is needed for me is ALSA and JACK.
    alsa provides support for my soundcards and also has a midi-loopback driver. while JACK provides low-latency, why would i need PA???

    i just don't see any benefit to PA.

    i use fedora 12 and Gentoo - no PulseAudio.

    ts9

  3. #23
    Linux Guru coopstah13's Avatar
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    you don't need pulseaudio if you are using jack, if you weren't using jack, then you would need something else to act as a mixer, dmix provided by alsa is very basic/limited, pulseaudio is intended to replace both ESD/aRTS

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    Quote Originally Posted by minthaka View Post
    Obviously the audio part of the Linux is the worst part of the entire system.
    I'm trying to have a real audio experience on Linux since 4 years, but I think that day will never dawn. Why there's no possibility to have an all in one kernel for all purposes? I'm using a wide range of applications. My favorite would be Ardour. But it is based on a farting called jack. I had to see how people are putting their efforts into developing something like PulseAudio, which is 0% needed and useful and at the same time leaving xruns from kernels untouched. I'm getting convinced that a Linux kernel is the worst piece of software ever written. I love Linux, but how on earth can it happen, that a crippled OS like Windows has a perfect audio system, with no real-time issues, no overruns, and other ********s so characteristic for Linux. What is the point in monolithic kernel, if we have to bow before the PC if its audio system works normally? Can somebody explain me why is audio so bad?
    Please, don't tell me "You should use UbuntuStudio, ..." for audio purposes. This answer is simply not acceptable. Should I install for each task a separate OS?
    A Linux for graphics, another for music creation, a third one for office...
    I even would help develop some applications, but it seems to me, that the kernel itself is sick. Any Linux audio professional here?

    Intel Celeron-D 2.66 GHz
    1.5 GB RAM
    Audigy 2

    That would make rock'n roll on Windows!
    I agree with this completely. It's sad but nothing works right anymore and 90% of the time it's developer stupidity. I have a good mind to switch to OS X one of these days but removing Pulseaudio did help my audio issues a lot. Xorg pisses me off alot too.

  5. #25
    Linux User hatebreed's Avatar
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    I got to say this is kinda funny. Why does everyone make excuses for things that don't work in linux? If I can run windows on the same hardware with no latency, pops, hisses, then I should be able to on linux. I shouldn't have to tweak the s*** out the kernel to get it to play music without a hitch. I've been playing mp3s on windows since the codec came out, never once have I had to tweak settings to get one to play right. As far as I can tell it's mainly a buffer problem but most audio apps don't give you a buffer setting to change. And even when you do change the buffer and get it tolerable you still run into the problem with multible apps. Shoot I remember playing diablo 2 with mp3s running in the background on windows 98 with 256 meg ram and a p2 300. Try doing that with linux, you wouldn't even hear the audio from you mp3s, the system couldn't keep up with it. I'm not trying to bash linux because I love the idea of free software but there are a lot of problems that need to be ironed out. Something as simple as playing an mp3, and yes it is simple, should not be an issue at all. This needs to be taken care of. I would help but i'm not a programmer, i'm just an end user you loves linux and it's ideals. I'm willing to help out in any way I can though, so if anyone has an idea and needs help testing I will gladly help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatebreed View Post
    I got to say this is kinda funny. Why does everyone make excuses for things that don't work in linux? If I can run windows on the same hardware with no latency, pops, hisses, then I should be able to on linux. I shouldn't have to tweak the s*** out the kernel to get it to play music without a hitch. I've been playing mp3s on windows since the codec came out, never once have I had to tweak settings to get one to play right. As far as I can tell it's mainly a buffer problem but most audio apps don't give you a buffer setting to change. And even when you do change the buffer and get it tolerable you still run into the problem with multible apps. Shoot I remember playing diablo 2 with mp3s running in the background on windows 98 with 256 meg ram and a p2 300. Try doing that with linux, you wouldn't even hear the audio from you mp3s, the system couldn't keep up with it. I'm not trying to bash linux because I love the idea of free software but there are a lot of problems that need to be ironed out. Something as simple as playing an mp3, and yes it is simple, should not be an issue at all. This needs to be taken care of. I would help but i'm not a programmer, i'm just an end user you loves linux and it's ideals. I'm willing to help out in any way I can though, so if anyone has an idea and needs help testing I will gladly help.
    first off, you DO have latency in windows/linux/and MacOSX, if you think you have no latency, as you put it, you are DEAD WRONG! - and that is very much a statement that makes you sound slightly dumb, or you just don't know what you are talking about, in general...

    in fact, my laptop linux has 1/5 of the latency that winXP has on the same machine.

    winXP = 5msec or more of latency, while Linux = 1msec.

    this has nothing to do with playing mp3's, it applies to when you are doing things like running VSTs and VSTi's or plugins, in the case that you are making music, routing and using FX. there is latency because as it processes a sound, then processes it again, as it is routed YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE LATENCY OF SOME KIND - even in the most professional digital studio setups! regardless of the OS you are using, period...

    when we discuss latency we are referring to LOW-LATECNY DRIVERS, ie: ASIO/Rewire in windows and JACK(and/or with wineASIO) in linux. Jack DOES have buffer settings, that you can change. so do some apps. but Jack sets it globally, most apps will be using whatever is set.. I have no problem running multiple audio apps. i currently use anywhere from 2 to 16 VST instruments at once, while patching them thru sooperlooper - for live-looping. glitch-free. - this is on a 5yr old, 32bit core duo, Dell inspiron too.... and i can easily setup a PC from scratch to do this in a couple of hours + my whole customized desktop and any apps that i use, on top of that.

    I don't know what distro you use, or how new you are to linux, but myself, i can play mp3's just fine - no tweaking required! it could be the codecs you are using(as there are a few that provide MP3 playback). if you use Totem, that could be part of your problem, as i think totem sucks!
    it most likely is NOT a buffer problem as you seem to think, it more likely to be a "priority" issue.
    **does playback stutter/skip when opening apps? switching desktops? or similar things like that? if so, that isn't a buffer problem, and is definetly an issue of priorities.
    beyond that you could have shared IRQ's with your soundcard, possibly
    ****** drivers, even the possibility you are using badly supported hardware/improperly configured hardware.

    you shouldn't have to tweak your kernel to play MP3's, that is quite silly. but ya, to run jack properly and have low-latency and "hard-realtime" - you do need too. but depending on your distro, that can be as easy as a few clicks to install an rt-kernel and then you may have to edit "limits.conf" or possibly add your user to the audio group(if it's not already!). if you even have to do it manually - which you do not always have to do, depending on your distro and you intentions/goals..

    i would hardly call that "tweaking the **** out of your kernel". that isn't tweaking your kernel at all - in fact!!! lol. - heavy tweaking would be more like - applying patch after patch to a vanilla kernel and compiling from source, using something like the Intel C++ compiler instead of GCC, and using heavy optimization flags - that is tweaking, not editing one or two configuration files and rebooting your OS...

    i have never had a fresh install not be able to play music(wav,mp3/m4a/etc, or have sound cut out when watching youtube, Divx movies, etc. nor do i have a problem playing a game and playing an mp3 at the same time. ie: i can play world of goo, alien arena, grid wars and listen
    to music just fine...not only that but my desktop is MUCH faster than windows or OSX on the same hardware...i still use OSX a bit, do not use windows and prefer linux to all. as i can do everything i need just fine and it is as fast as hell.

    let me guess, you use Ubuntu???? right?? and have very little linux experience and expect it to work just like good ol' windows?? do you also think the command line sucks and you shouldn't have to use it all??? lol.

    + what i think is funny is some noob trying to tell linux users how everything should be, when by the way they talk, you can tell that the person doesn't have much of a clue, and probably hasn't bothered to learn how linux works, or why things are the way they are...

    and yes, linux does have the odd issue that needs to be ironed out, but you aren't really
    offering anything relevent, are you?? (more of a pointless noob rant, by the sound of it) you can always just use windows

    also, You do realize that linux requires a little more tech-savvy-ness and knowledge to use effectively right???? (and that it is fairly young, as far as using it as a desktop/gaming/proaudio right??) and that's no excuse, just a simple reality...

    -----> my suggestion is you try a few distro's out, actually learn how linux works, which distro best suits you/your needs and how to use it properly...

    then post when you need some help, have a specific question or have something really useful or to say!

    ts9

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by coopstah13 View Post
    i dunno what distro you use, but certainly in arch they force us to install nothing more than the kernel and the basic gnu utilities

    agreed, i am not forced to use anything in linux.... i make choices at install. but ubuntu DOES install pulseaudio by default (not that i use that!)....maybe that is what he is saying??

    in Fedora i have the option, and gentoo definetly doesn't install anything by default...lol

  8. #28
    Linux User TaZMAniac's Avatar
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    LOL!
    Everyone beefing about the different audio choices.
    I remember spending a month with Red Hat 8 trying to get my sound card to work.
    Compiling drivers, dependency hell and after it was all said and done?
    Audio output level was so low that you had to strain your ears to hear it with even with the speakers cranked all the way up.

    I'm not fond of Jack because I'm just too lazy and don't have the time to properly configure it. When I was using it, my latency times were at least 1/2 of what they were when I was using a self made mod'ed version of XP using ASIO drivers through my mAudio sound card.
    And that was using a generic install of jack.
    The Window's driver was about 10 times slower then the ASIO driver.

    As for playing mp3's and such?
    Back to using Ubuntu for now just for convenience and family peace. Hardest thing I had to do was download VLC and a few restricted drivers which allowed me to listen and watch just about anything I wanted to.
    No stutters or jitters but then again I'm using a home built dual core.
    Come to think of it, I never had problems with my 2.5 Ghz single core.

    The problem that Linux has is the people coming from a Windows environment thinking everything will be spoon fed to them. Where were they 5 or 6 years ago when the word drivers and compiling brought fear to the face of even the most seasoned Linux user?

    Yes, Linux has it's problems. The audio could be more streamlined and work better out of the box. But considering the alternatives, I'm sticking with Linux.
    It's free'er then you think.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaZMAniac View Post
    LOL!
    Everyone beefing about the different audio choices.
    I remember spending a month with Red Hat 8 trying to get my sound card to work.
    Compiling drivers, dependency hell and after it was all said and done?
    Audio output level was so low that you had to strain your ears to hear it with even with the speakers cranked all the way up.

    I'm not fond of Jack because I'm just too lazy and don't have the time to properly configure it. When I was using it, my latency times were at least 1/2 of what they were when I was using a self made mod'ed version of XP using ASIO drivers through my mAudio sound card.
    And that was using a generic install of jack.
    The Window's driver was about 10 times slower then the ASIO driver.

    As for playing mp3's and such?
    Back to using Ubuntu for now just for convenience and family peace. Hardest thing I had to do was download VLC and a few restricted drivers which allowed me to listen and watch just about anything I wanted to.
    No stutters or jitters but then again I'm using a home built dual core.
    Come to think of it, I never had problems with my 2.5 Ghz single core.

    The problem that Linux has is the people coming from a Windows environment thinking everything will be spoon fed to them. Where were they 5 or 6 years ago when the word drivers and compiling brought fear to the face of even the most seasoned Linux user?

    Yes, Linux has it's problems. The audio could be more streamlined and work better out of the box. But considering the alternatives, I'm sticking with Linux.
    It's free'er then you think.
    i 100% agree with you, especially on the people coming from windows part.... i have found linux to be pretty easy to use once you get used to it, and enjoy some of the advantages that come with using open-source software. i can build software with the features i need and without the crap i don't. i can also compile with different compilers, very freeing indeed both gimp and firefox on my machines were built using ICC and are WAY faster than the average packaged version, it's awesome. i also like the fact, that linux engages you to actually understand how a computer really works, even with the odd issue that can come up, it is very worthwhile....

    as for jack, on some distro's jack is a pain to setup, so i can relate. in the case of Fedora though,
    it is stupid easy. all that you have to do is install planet ccrma and everything usually works out of the box - no editing any configuration files, and it is jack 1.9.5(SMP). i literally put almost zero effort into running a stable fast multimedia environment. then to increase performance, i ditch the stock rt-kernel, for an optimized zen-kernel instead. in my case that means realtime kernel, with the BFS scheduler and my current kernel is compiled using ICC instead of GCC (noticable performance gains!) i also mod-gnome and slim-down compiz.
    i cut away any and all bloat, and i end up with a very fast/slim/responsive system...
    then i back up all configurations and compiled kernels(RPMs) for if i ever need to do a fresh install. it's great.

    and ya, back in the day compiling drivers sucked. i think tablet support still sucks though
    i had a few issues getting my bamboo to work in linux. i wish Wacom would make official linux drivers, to make things a little simpler, as i had to setup xorg.conf (which my system didn't need until i got the tablet). but i am sure eventually that will be sorted out.

    anyway cheerz mate!

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