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A folder has as much to do with computers as direectories do. Folder = 0 Directory = 1 Its a tomato tomato argument, this is the same argument you can ...
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  1. #11
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    A folder has as much to do with computers as direectories do.

    Folder = 0
    Directory = 1

    Its a tomato tomato argument, this is the same argument you can have over gnome vs kde, redhat vs suse, etc...

    Its all about what you want.

    On a simialr note, Promise Technolgoy who claims "It's all about your data"
    Be careful, we bought one of their Ultratek sx8000's and put 8 WD 200GB drives in it having been told that was fine... so far, its been anything but. The RAID drops drives, and fails rebuilds casuing it to go offline... Come to find out they didnt test the sx8000 with teh 200 drives, just the sx4000 (which only had 4 of them)

    ok ok... </ranting>
    majorwoo

    Quiet brain, or I\'ll stab you with a Q-tip.

  2. #12
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    Also, just to be a Devil's Advocate, both GNOME and KDE display their "directories" with a picture of a file folder. Either way, directory of folder, as long as it's understood that it's just a special file that points to a list of files/directories. Just thought I would interject.

    Tithefug

  3. #13
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    Well, I cannot really agree with you on the tomato tomato thing, since "directory" actually correlates to the usage of the file, while "folder" doesn't, except in people's minds. And especially since it's an association imposed on people mainly by Microsoft, that gives me an extra reason the prevent the usage of it.
    As I see it, it's just as calling your mobile phone "bear" (ok, I don't know if you do that, but there are lots of people doing it here in Sweden). It really nothing to do with the device, in opposition to telephone, which precisely describes its function. The only reason that it's called it is because other people call it that and (probably) because it introduces an element of "cuteness", which I stand strongly against. I believe a word is supposed to be correlated to whatever it refers to, don't you agree? If you have to give it a nickname, please pick one of your own instead of one invented because of user friendlyness.
    You may, of course, object that it's just a word, but aren't words, after all, meant to describe something? "Directory" does, after all, describe a brief list of objects, whose main purpose being to ties together two or more possible definitions of the referred objects, like in the file directory case, where an entry ties a name and an inode number together. "Folder", on the other hand, rather describes an object which provides barriers in order to keep objects placed inside the barriers from mixing up with other objects.
    If it wasn't for Apple and Microsoft (most the last one), calling directories "folders" would be about as logical as calling a car "box".

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  5. #14
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    According to Freud

    Normality is defined as the majority.

    People call them Desktops, PC's, computers, a box -- in the end I really think it does just come down to what people call it. I mean outside of hating M$ what does it matter what people call it? Honestly, I see no difference in what people call it. I moved to Florida from Pennsylvania almost 5 years ago, and people here call it soda, or even worse soda pop instead of pop like I am used to. And honestly? It doesn't matter.

    I understand your feeling it is a more logical nameing convention, but when you say telephone describes it more accurately - ok fine. Words change, and isn't cell phone a better name? So should we tell people who call it a Telephone they are wrong because a telephone is a phone tied to a base in your house?

    Honestly? I call them directories, most of the time, and yes it is more logical and correct and blah blah blah... But is someone really wrong for calling it a folder? No.
    majorwoo

    Quiet brain, or I\'ll stab you with a Q-tip.

  6. #15
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    Normality has nothing to do with it. "Normal" people probably think that atoms (or electrons, if they are a little more educated) are actually particles (in the way they were defined in the switch 19th to 20th century, like balls obeying to Newton mechanics), but that is nonetheless wrong, since we now know that they can only be defined as probibility wave functions varying to the external energy definitions. In the same way, it may very well be normal to call directories "folders", even though it is nonetheless wrong. A folder is inherently something different from a directory.
    About your telephone analogy, it's completely the same thing, for two reasons. First, telephone is actually a valid name, since it still describes a cell phone's function. In that case it would be more illegal to call a telephone "phone", since it actually alters the meaning. Of course, cellular telephone more accurately describes just how it functions, but "telephone" is still valid. Second, much more important however, calling a cell phone just "phone" is just the same thing as calling a telephone "phone"; it's just an time saving abbreviation, in the same way that I often write "dir" instead of directory, or the same way that you say "Auto" in german or "Bil" in Swedish instead of the fully describing latin name of "Automobil". I don't know where the english "Car" comes from, however. Regarding the "box" nickname of computers, I refer to the abstracted software or hardware itself as the "system" and only say "box" when I'm referring to the actual box that the system is located inside or when talking about physical properties of the computer, since only the box is relevant in those situations. But that wasn't important.
    Technically, it is wrong to call a directory "folder", since the purposes of a directory doesn't reflect the properties of a folder. Evolution (the mail user agent) refers to mail "folders", which is far more accurate, since the mail folders aren't mapping lists. One could imagine a system, where they've hashed the mail IDs to byte offset in one big mbox file containing all the mails, and made mail directories containing the mail ID mappings to offsets, one for each mail directory (such as inbox, outbox, etc.). Then they should be called directories. But the system that's implemented in evolution and most other mail user agents that I know of use seperate files for storing the mails of each mail folder. It then uses the boundaries of the file to define barriers between the different mail folders. Thus, folder is a correct name for that implementation. Folder is nonetheless an incorrect name for directories, since the main purpose of a directory is to map the file names to inode numbers. Therefore it is wrong of someone to call a directory "folder".
    Then, of course, I do not indent to launch a crusade against users of the name folder. It's not like I'm appealing to the swedish academy (nor its english counterpart) for the launching of "anti-folder" campaigns in school or so. Don't get me wrong; I'm a true liberal. I impose no physical limits to keep people from calling directories "folders", but on the other hand, I should be just as free to try and convert people that I encounter to the correct naming, in the same way that I would try and teach people in quantum physics, if I only had the time (and oppurtunity) for that.

  7. #16
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    Neither of us appear to be interested in conversion, and as we disagree on a idea rather then fact I will concede that directories are a logical name, I will not however admit to the word folder being "wrong". To call something wrong because of your viewpoint is not something I am willing to do. Well I realize you believe it is wrong because of the laws of physics and the english language defining a word with a meaning other then it is being used for, I say to you:

    Same Difference.

    You have already said you have no desire to go on crusade against the barbaric folder people, I think my problem lies in the use of the word "wrong". I have always tried to be an open person, and if you call it a directory and I call it a folder, noone is hurt by that. I do not believe you can even make the argument that in being "wrong" I am misleading the public, because the entire point of the latyers we build on top of computers (a GUI for example) is to make it easier for people to use/interface with, and if calling it a folder helps someone understand its use better - then good, folder it is.

    As I mentioned earlier, we seem to be arguing different points - you would say calling it a folder is technically wrong, well I am saying that wrong has no meaning in this context. If you want to call your directory/folder/special file a tomato then be my guest, if it works for you... just dont call tech support and tell them you deleted your tomato.
    majorwoo

    Quiet brain, or I\'ll stab you with a Q-tip.

  8. #17
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    do I have to lock this thread gentlemen?
    I respectfully decline the invitation to join your delusion.

  9. #18
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    Hey, don't be mean! We were just having a little discussion. No harm done, right?

    Anyway, majorwoo: sure, link(2) words if you like. I think (unlike most people it seems, though) that the layers we build on top on computers are for increasing the speed of use, not ease of use. I use gnome/X, not for its ease of use, but for the practicality of being able to look at five terminals at once, with some system info applets cornering the screen. Sure, ease of use might be important too, for other users, but whether "folder" is really more user-friendly than "directory" can still be discussed, but let's drop this (for now, he he).

    One last thing, though: I would . never . call tech support!

    I'll go install the hurd on my machine now... my christmas present to myself =) Have a good day foldering aroung

  10. #19
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    hmm, i guess the layers on computers do add speed in a sense - but they also slow it down, Sam and I had this discussion in class once and almost got thrown out for it.

    The more layers you add to something, the more it has to go through the SLOWER it has to get, there is really no way around that.


    But i know what you mean, its easuer to have 5 terminals on the same screen then CTRL+ALT+FXing your way around all day.

    I have this one guy at work, who is SO stupid, he calls the university's IT EVERY SINGLE time to complain about his email, or whatever not working - and EVERY time I get a call from them saying i should handle this, he is in my dept, and they dont support linux etc... I don't know why that had to come out here, but it did Oh yeah, tech support - i hate them too...

    Anyhow, yeah - let's be good, ive never known wassy to bite but....
    majorwoo

    Quiet brain, or I\'ll stab you with a Q-tip.

  11. #20
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    I have one thing to say.
    cd == change DIRECTORY

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