thanks two hats, I do tend to surprise people around me. the problem with the shell is it's like learning a very funky , very foreign language. I can't even use philosophy in my own language, so it takes a long time to remember all these things. My man never ever expected me to get hooked, but I can thank linux for that, it's fun to look around at the distro's, what developpers do with them. I think I read these a lot 'cos they relax me, and I figure that I will end up learning by a form of osmosis....keep up the good work! aloha