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Originally Posted by UgoDeschamps I totally agree on the fact that Windows is easier, frendlier and mabye more intuitive... so is eating with a fork instead of chinese stick... but ...
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- 11-18-2004 #11Originally Posted by UgoDeschamps
- 11-18-2004 #12
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
- Montreal, Canada
when im talking about more intuitive, I meen in a way that i've been using MS Windows since i'm 8years old... which now make it .... o god... a few years... so in a way, I know windows in and out...
i'v been using unix for 2-3 years now and just merged to linux last month...
Windows is like a fork for me...
but i like chopstick more...
just have to get use to it\"Meditative mind\'s is like a vast ocean... whatever strikes the surface, the bottom stays calm\" - Dalai Lama
\"Competition ultimatly comes down to one thing... a loser and a winner.\" - Ugo Deschamps
- 11-18-2004 #13
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
I usually stay out of debates like this, but I just have to say this.
How can "search, download, find crack/serial/whatever, install, next, next, I agree, next, next, select location, next, apply crack" possibly be more easy/intuitive than "emerge package"?
Window$ is easier to use for just one reason - most people learned to use the computer with it and for many it is too late now to change to something different (although better).
- 11-18-2004 #14
I wish I would have gotten into this thread a little earlier, but I wanted to give my view for what it is worth.
I feel that Linux doesn't need to be mainstream, nor do I care that it is not. I am glad really. I have learned more about computers, because of Linux. Usually if something doesn't work you really have to investigate. I think that windows is easier, but maybe because that is how I started out. I now think Linux is easier and I absolutely get frazzled by the lack of options in windows. If I don't like something in windows I can't change it. I really like the freedom of Linux. I now can do everything I want without a windows box - excluding games although the games I do play are viable in Linux. I just don't find the time anymore. And with the price of hardware and keeping up with the games I am close to a PS2 anyways.
The other thing I wanted to touch on is Linux is a choice OS. I don't think that Linux should have a standard. I think we should be able to pick a distro and learn how to do what needs to be done in that distro. I think this is more freedom. Here is the great part. Some Linux distros make things easier than others; the reason that is so great is that Newbies can pick up Linux and do something with it, and while Newbs get better like me we can move onto a better distro to suit our needs. I started with RED HAT 5.1 and then move to SUSE for a short stint and now I am incredibly happy with Slackware. I have also been playing with BSD a little and considering the new Solaris. I am glad that I have all of these choices and if it was all the same I think it would have to be easy like windows and I would be bored and not be happy.
The longer Linux doesn't conform the better. Just as a side note to one of the origional posts that was discussing mp3 players. I have downloaded software for windows that wouldn't work too. Also My windows, that I am forced to use at work, crashes way more than my Slackware does. I also wanted to add that I believe that we could get any program written for Linux to run on any Linux distro. This might take finesse but once you figure it out; you are one level smarter and one more step from leaving windows forever.
Don't forget that you are not alone if you are having problems getting an mp3 player to work come to the Linuxforums.org and ask. Chances are someone has already faught the same problem and is more than happy to help.
- 11-18-2004 #15Originally Posted by adrenaline
- 11-19-2004 #16
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
ugh this thread is totally sidetracked...
what I'm saying is pretty simple:
1. average people will not use linux at all if it's as complicated as it is today to install certain apps
2. even I, totally comfortable with diving into new computer stuff and knowing exactly how it all works, get pissed off by installing the majority of linux software. reason: I don't like to waste time. often installing linux software requires wasting time - you just spend time doing things manually WITHOUT any advantage such as customization
3. saying that it's better for linux to never become mainstream is good for making you feel like you're part of some sort of exclusive geek underground, but on the practical side of things, it only hurts US ALL.
- 11-19-2004 #17Originally Posted by efferoo
2. Usually installing isn't the problem, but what you are implying is the configuration or learning the configuration - This is why linux is powerfull - you have the option to make it as powerful as you like. Pretty boring if you have to use it out of the box. I don't consider it a waste of time I consider it education.
3. I guess we would have to define our own practicalities; I think it only hurts people with anger management problems.
- 11-19-2004 #18
Everyone should use what ever they feel more comfotable with, or whatever fulfills theire needs the best. But as far as people who say Windows is easier/more intuative to use then Linux the only answer I have to that is use Linux as much as, and for as long as, you have used Windows and THEN make the comparison.
Users who have used Windows for many years, then give Linux a try for a few weeks/months and complain that Linux is more complicated, I don't think are making a very fair comparisson. Many people struggle with Windows, put perservere either because they believe it is the only option out there, or because they know someone out there (friend, relative or even family member) to show them the way when they get lost.
Becuase of my computing backgroud (degree in Software Engineering) I have grown up with friends/relatives phoning me to ask how to print, find files, install software etc. in windows. But now, years later, they have the confidence to try things for themselves.
I do agree that the standardised installation would be a bonus (although I prefer installing from source whenever I can) but this aside the rest of Linux is as intuative to use as windows IMHO.
I always like to use the example of a car and motorbike. Just because a person is an experienced car driver doesn't mean he should just be able to hop onto a 600cc motorbike and ride it straight away. Yes both are road vehicles but each is a slighty different beast therefore each must be learnt and practiced with due respect. And the experianced car driver (i.e. the long-time windows user) should also remember, there was a time when he/she was still a learner too and things didn't always seem so easy then.
thats just my humble opinion.
PS. Like many other Linux users, i'm not too bothered whether Linux becomes mainstream or not. As long as those who want to use it can do so thats the most important thing to me.
- 11-19-2004 #19
I've split off a number of posts from this thread as it has erupted into a minor flamewar. I've tried to remove the useless stuff while leaving things that may be useful or informative to others.
No matter what you feel, flaming, bashing and trolling is NOT condusive to the community. If you want to express concerns/opinions on these forums, do it in an objective manner that provides a good, clean, intelligent discussion for others to read. Make points, back them up and don't attack the OPINIONS of others.
To throw my points in to the discussion before I close it:
It is my opinion that if you aren't competent enough to install packages in MDK or RH, then you don't need to be around a computer at all. If you don't care to learn Linux or don't have the time, I understand. That doesn't make Windows better or even mean that you should use it. This is when you get a friend to install Linux for you, use it and learn only when you have time (or just use it).
I also agree that there shouldn't be standardization of installation. If you choose SuSE, MDK, RH, or Gentoo, there is a huge repository of installable files for each distro that don't require much work at all. Why standardize? That just takes the choice out of it, negating the whole point.
I could really care less if Linux becomes mainstream or not. I have a feeling it will because people will eventually get sick of the crap that they experience in the world of Windows (PRICE, spyware, adware, malware, virii, and general OS bloat) and realize the better solution. Even if I'm sorely wrong here, Linux will live forever because there will always be those of us that love it for what it represents: freedom and community.
And with that, this topic is locked. My suggestion to keep your threads from exploding into flamewars: make your question/opinion objective and open-minded. This is the best way to ensure that you don't get flame-esque replies (as you can't really control what people type ).
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