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Hi, the subject of the thread is pretty obvious, but in case it isn't here's what happened: I tried to install linux along with windows on a new dual-BIOS (UEFI ...
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  1. #1
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    ubuntu entry in bios boot order


    Hi,

    the subject of the thread is pretty obvious, but in case it isn't here's what happened:

    I tried to install linux along with windows on a new dual-BIOS (UEFI and legacy) computer, and after one of my many (over 40+, no exaggeration!) attempts I also installed ubuntu. I don't remember which distro and which version though.

    Anyway, now, when I enter BIOS and choose the boot priority "ubuntu" appears there as one of the options. I even reset the CMOS and loaded BIOS default values, but it doesn't help. The Ubuntu option won't disappear.

    What can I do?

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    Just Joined! txlonghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayden View Post
    Anyway, now, when I enter BIOS and choose the boot priority "ubuntu" appears there as one of the options. I even reset the CMOS and loaded BIOS default values, but it doesn't help. The Ubuntu option won't disappear.

    What can I do?
    Boot into the linux that you want to keep, open a terminal and enter the command sudo update-grub
    Then to make sure that your linux is in control of the GRUB menu, enter the command sudo grub-install /dev/sdX
    - where sdX is the drive you want to boot first - probably sda?

    Those commands work on ubuntu based linux. If you have a different linux, you may need a slightly different command, so include some info on your system.

  3. #3
    Linux User nihili's Avatar
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    @txlonghorn: i think this uefi stuff is different. op is clearly talking about bios (and it seems to me they are NOT confusing it with grub).

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    Hi txlonghorn and nihili. Yes, I am talking about the BIOS (not Linux). Currently, I have Mageia installed (I think) but it's an install that doesn't do anything cause I can't boot into it because of the God-only-knows what type of problems.

    This is a new PC I bought (I picked the components myself, unfortunately) 2 weeks ago and that, so far, I wasn't able to put ANY distro on (here's the link to my other thread in which I whined about not being able to put Linux on this new computer, in case you;re interested http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/ins...ll-new-pc.html). So like I said, I can't make any Linux on this computer work, not in dual booting with Windows 8.1 (like I would like to) and not in single boot (Linux only). It just won't work and I don't know why. But anyway, that's not the problem here.

    The problem is that during one of the numerous Linux installs (I think I have over 30 or 40 of them combined over the last 10 days) I also tried to install an Ubuntu distro (Kubuntu if I remember correctly, but I'm not 100% sure). Since then, every time I go into BIOS and choose the boot order priority Ubuntu shows up there along with HDD, CD, and any other option I may have.

    And yes, my BIOS is dual (UEFI and legacy), in case it matters.

    And my build is this:

    MB: Gigabyte H97M-D3H
    HDD: Seagate Desktop SSHD 1TB 7200RPM 64MB SATA-III
    Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB DDR5 192Bit Windforce2X
    RAM Memory: Kingmax 2x4GB DDR3, 1600 MHz, CL9
    CPU: Intel® Core™ i3-4360 3.70 GHz, 4MB L3 Cache

    Anything else I missed/should have mentioned please let me know.

    Now, I could eventually leave with "Ubuntu" there (no, there is nothing plugged into the PC at all, the Ubuntu is just there cause it feels like being there lol). Like I said, I could live with that thing in my BIOS if it can't be removed but I need to be certain it doesn't do any damage to my PC over short and/or long term. Cause if it does, well, time to get rid of it. The question though, is... how??

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    I didn't follow your other thread but did you look at this? Linux on UEFI: A Quick Installation Guide It does include some post install troubleshooting.

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    I did actually, but I don't recall to have helped me at the time I was trying to install Linux. Will look over it again tomorrow when I'll have more time to take care of this Linux installation issue one more time. Right now I am tired and I need to sleep.

    Thanks for the link.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregm View Post
    I didn't follow your other thread but did you look at this? Linux on UEFI: A Quick Installation Guide It does include some post install troubleshooting.

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    Just Joined! txlonghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihili View Post
    @txlonghorn: i think this uefi stuff is different. op is clearly talking about bios (and it seems to me they are NOT confusing it with grub).
    I apologize for my previous confusion about what the problem was, and thank you for the clarification, nihili.
    If you are installing in UEFI mode, GRUB would be installed to the ESP partition, in this case sda1 (the 300MB partition), not installed to the MBR, sda.

    I have read your original thread and can offer some hopefully helpful comments.

    I believe that the reason your "BIOS" shows Ubuntu is because you successfully installed Mint (Ubuntu based) and the boot info for Mint is still in your ESP (sda1, the 300MB partition). So actually it is not your "BIOS", it is the next step in the boot process after the BIOS is posted.
    (As a side note, with a EFI computer, there is no such thing as a "BIOS". What was formerly known as "BIOS" would be properly refered to as "EFI". They are two very different things.)
    Also, you do not need the separate /boot partition that you have, when installing linux in UEFI mode. That is what the ESP is for (your 300MB partition, sda1). So removing the Ubuntu entry in your boot menu is as simple as deleting the unwanted file from your ESP.

    As ohmy has said, every different motherboard has a unique inplementation of EFI. Your Gigabyte H97M-D3H is very similar to my Gigabyte model GA-A75-UD4H, Bios: Award version F2, date 06/08/2011.
    I have installed various versions of linux to this computer at least 100 times successfully - always in legacy (non-UEFI) mode. However, my efforts to install in UEFI mode have always failed. I tried every configuration I could think of to install any version of linux on my computer in UEFI mode without any success. I disconnected all hard drives except one. Formatted that one. Created a GPT partition table. Created the GPT partitions. Tried every distro I could get my hands on which reportedly could be installed in UEFI mode, and every attempt failed. Tried with DVD and USB and .iso files loaded into ram. (By the way, a burned DVD is usually a better path to follow, rather than a USB.)
    My conclusion is that the EFI implementation on this motherboard is simply too buggy to handle installing linux in UEFI mode, and I can suggest that you are in the same situation. That is complicated by the fact that you want to dual-boot Windows. I don't have that problem, since I excommunicated Windows from my computing world in 1996.

    Here is what I would do if I were you. Install a second hard drive and unplug the Windows hard drive. That way you will never have to worry about re-installing Win 8 again. You can get a 32 or 60 GB internal SSD drive for less than $50. Or you might have an old whirlygig drive laying around. Install Mint to the second drive in any mode you chose - legacy or UEFI. When it is installed and working, reconnect your Windows drive. You can chose which drive to boot at boot time, and you can also update the GRUB menu in Mint to list Windows on the GRUB menu.

    In answer to your question about dual booting different versions of linux, that is quite possible - in fact, quite common. But let's concentrate on the first installation...
    Last edited by txlonghorn; 08-19-2014 at 02:14 PM.

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    OK! First of all, I need to see what GPT and ESP mean LOL.

    Then, thanks for the clarification. I really had no idea that UEFI and BIOS are not the same thing. I thought that BIOS is the operating system of the MB and that it has 2 ways of "booting": legacy mode and UEFI. Guess I was wrong...

    Thirdly, it's nice to see someone having a similar MB and knowing what I go through in order to make this work. You understand better than someone who doesn't have a Gigabyte MB (no disrespect to anyone)

    Then, you're saying that I can only make Linux install if I use the legacy mode, right? Do you mean legacy only, or legacy first? I'm asking this because I have 2 different settings in BIOS (or UEFI, the hell with these terms). One of these settings (that it's called Boot Mode Selection) has 3 options (UEFI only, Legacy only, UEFI and legacy), the other setting (that is called Storage Boot Option Control) has 5 options (UEFI only, UEFI first, Legacy only, legacy first, and I don't know which one is the fifth lol)

    So anyway, I'm assuming you refer here to the Boot Mode Selection setting when you say that I should install Linux in legacy mode. Is that correct? And if it's correct, may I know what I need to do with the Storage Boot Option Control setting? Which of the 5 options must I choose under that setting? And what's this Storage Boot Option Control for anyway??

    Also, now that we're discussing this, there is another issue that I've stumbled upon and didn't know how to go about it. Namely, do I still need to create a /boot partition for these new (2013 and beyond) computers? I've read somewhere that Linux doesn't need such a partition anymore on UEFI based computers, so I don't know if it's true or not. Actually, I'm not sure if I need a swap partition either.

    Sorry for having to ask these but I've been using Windows for all I can remember and now, trying to switch over to Linux there's so many things I need to be wary of that it makes my head spin. Lucky me that I already went through a few dozen installations and I kind of learned what it takes to install Linux, but still, these new additions to technology (like UEFI, GPT, grub, etc.) are confusing the hell out of me

    Gotta learn what each of them does in order to know how to set up my machine. So, please bear with me.

    Yeah, there are so many more things that I'll need help with, but for now please answer the questions I asked above so I can get this thing going. And once I have Linux installed we can communicate more from there.

    And seriously, thanks a lot for understanding what my problems are. I really didn't know how to explain better than this and I was being taken for a time waster. At least that's how I felt like

    John


    Quote Originally Posted by txlonghorn View Post
    I apologize for my previous confusion about what the problem was, and thank you for the clarification, nihili.
    If you are installing in UEFI mode, GRUB would be installed to the ESP partition, in this case sda1 (the 300MB partition), not installed to the MBR, sda.

    I have read your original thread and can offer some hopefully helpful comments.

    I believe that the reason your "BIOS" shows Ubuntu is because you successfully installed Mint (Ubuntu based) and the boot info for Mint is still in your ESP (sda1, the 300MB partition). So actually it is not your "BIOS", it is the next step in the boot process after the BIOS is posted.
    (As a side note, with a EFI computer, there is no such thing as a "BIOS". What was formerly known as "BIOS" would be properly refered to as "EFI". They are two very different things.)
    Also, you do not need the separate /boot partition that you have, when installing linux in UEFI mode. That is what the ESP is for (your 300MB partition, sda1). So removing the Ubuntu entry in your boot menu is as simple as deleting the unwanted file from your ESP.

    As ohmy has said, every different motherboard has a unique inplementation of EFI. Your Gigabyte H97M-D3H is very similar to my Gigabyte model GA-A75-UD4H, Bios: Award version F2, date 06/08/2011.
    I have installed various versions of linux to this computer at least 100 times successfully - always in legacy (non-UEFI) mode. However, my efforts to install in UEFI mode have always failed. I tried every configuration I could think of to install any version of linux on my computer in UEFI mode without any success. I disconnected all hard drives except one. Formatted that one. Created a GPT partition table. Created the GPT partitions. Tried every distro I could get my hands on which reportedly could be installed in UEFI mode, and every attempt failed. Tried with DVD and USB and .iso files loaded into ram. (By the way, a burned DVD is usually a better path to follow, rather than a USB.)
    My conclusion is that the EFI implementation on this motherboard is simply too buggy to handle installing linux in UEFI mode, and I can suggest that you are in the same situation. That is complicated by the fact that you want to dual-boot Windows. I don't have that problem, since I excommunicated Windows from my computing world in 1996.

    Here is what I would do if I were you. Install a second hard drive and unplug the Windows hard drive. That way you will never have to worry about re-installing Win 8 again. You can get a 32 or 60 GB internal SSD drive for less than $50. Or you might have an old whirlygig drive laying around. Install Mint to the second drive in any mode you chose - legacy or UEFI. When it is installed and working, reconnect your Windows drive. You can chose which drive to boot at boot time, and you can also update the GRUB menu in Mint to list Windows on the GRUB menu.

    In answer to your question about dual booting different versions of linux, that is quite possible - in fact, quite common. But let's concentrate on the first installation...

  10. #9
    Linux Engineer TNFrank's Avatar
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    A BIOS is a "Basic Input Output System" IIRC and can only be changed by flashing it. Yes, you can change settings but only to a point. The BIOS is responsible for the POST(Power On Self Test) that lets you know your system is all there and working at which point it hands off control to the installed Operating System. UEFI is an entirely different animal that I know very little about.
    As I mentioned before in the other post and as has been mentioned again, get another hard drive that's not a Hybrid one and stick it into your machine and see if you can get Linux installed on it. I think a big part of the problem may be the Hybrid hard drive with Linux not knowing where sda is or installing correctly to sda.

    I also still think a big part of the problem is trying to do a dual boot with Windows 8. Windows 8 and Linux just don't play well together and even though there's been a few folks that have gotten them to dual boot it's really a PITA to do.
    No matter where ya' go, there ya' are.

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    Just Joined! txlonghorn's Avatar
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    Here is some info on GPT, EFI, and ESP terminology:
    "For several years, a new firmware technology has been lurking in the wings, unknown to most ordinary users. Known as the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI), or more recently as the Unified EFI (UEFI, which is essentially EFI 2.x), this technology has begun replacing the older Basic Input/Output System (BIOS) firmware with which most experienced computer users are at least somewhat familiar.
    EFI is a type of firmware, meaning that it's software built into the computer to handle low-level tasks. Most importantly, the firmware controls the computer's boot process, which in turn means that EFI-based computers boot differently than do BIOS-based computers."
    Linux on UEFI: A Quick Installation Guide

    GPT is a new way to create partitions to accomodate hard drives larger than 2 Terabytes. The old spec (msdos) only allows 4 primary partitions. GPT allows many more than that. If Windows is installed in UEFI mode, it MUST be installed to GPT partitioning. Linux is more flexible, but to dual boot with Windows in UEFI, it is not a good idea to try to install linux in non-UEFI mode. (It can be done, but it creates problems.) You should not try that. Only if you install to a different hard drive would that be an acceptable option.

    When a BIOS based computer boots, the next step after the ROM post is to read the MBR of the drive you are booting. With a EFI computer, the next step after the ROM post is to check the ESP of the drive you are booting.
    ESP means "EFI System Partition". In your case, John, that is your 300MB partition, sda1.
    With the BIOS based installation of linux, the bootloader (GRUB) is installed to the MBR, usually. With EFI computers, to install linux in UEFI mode, GRUB is installed to the ESP, NOT to the MBR.

    "you're saying that I can only make Linux install if I use the legacy mode, right? " - I have had no success with linux in UEFI mode with this motherboard, in spite of extensive efforts. You may be in the same situation.

    "do I still need to create a /boot partition for these new (2013 and beyond) computers? I've read somewhere that Linux doesn't need such a partition anymore on UEFI based computers, so I don't know if it's true or not. Actually, I'm not sure if I need a swap partition either." I mentioned in a previous post that you do not need a separate /boot partition when installing Mint in UEFI mode - that is what the ESP is for. I would create a swap partition no matter whether you think you need it. I have 8GB of ram, and I actually used my swap partition once, under extrordinary circumstances.

    I have a question for you. Can you boot the Mint 17 DVD in UEFI mode?
    If you can then installing Mint to the Windows drive as dual-boot should work - as long as you install the bootloader (GRUB) to the ESP (sda1) not to the MBR (sda).
    Please try to boot the Mint 17 DVD in UEFI mode. When you boot it, you can check to see if it is actually in UEFI mode by opening a terminal and entering this command:
    dmesg | grep -i EFI
    The result on a BIOS-based computer should be few or no lines of output. On an EFI-based computer, though, the output will be extensive.
    Another command you can try is:
    ls /sys/firmware/efi
    If you see a list of files and directories, you've booted in EFI mode, if not, you've probably booted in BIOS mode.

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