What am I missing?

[tommykay]

In the past three weeks, I have installed Linux twelve times on several different machines, and I have *one* that works. I tried Ubuntu, Kororaa, Fedora, Feather, and Mandriva. I also tried BSD UNIX.

For all that work, I have a single Ubuntu that functions, although the boot loader is hosed. What am I missing?

Several of the machines were elderly, but two are dual core rockets. About half laptops and desktops.

In some cases, the installer dies mid install. In a few other cases, Linux seems to install correctly, but then does not work when I reboot. In one case, Mandriva seemed to work fine until I turned on the 3D desktop. That gave me four completely blank desktops, although I could spin them in 3D and see the logo on the top and bottom.

Since I have tried many many different combinations of hardware and software, I'm trying to understand how other people install Linux. Is this operating system just for computer experts? (Say what you will about Microsoft, I can get it to run first try on any suitable. I actually saw a woman running XP on 128Mb the other day.)

So here are my questions: how do other people get a working Linux box without installing the OS twelve times? How do people deal with the many types of peripherals? On the only machine that actually works, the camera, ethernet, 802.11, and the firewire are all dead.

Any substantive discussion would be welcome.

Thanks, Tom

[IsaacKuo]

If you want a substantive discussion, you'll need to provide some information about what your problems are. What are the hardware specs of the computers, what were you trying to install, and what were the problems? Personally, I've had plenty of bizarre problems while trying to install Windows, depending on the hardware (I had to switch video cards because of an apparently known issue with certain Matrox cards that cause the XP installer to hang, for instance).

It sounds like you actually did get Mandrive to work fine, until you used 3d desktop--a feature which doesn't even exist in Windows XP. Seeing as many video cards don't even support 3d desktop, that's not exactly a "necessary" feature.

Generally, when I find an installer dying mid-install, it's a problem with the CD/DVD or the drive.

Also, what versions are you trying to install? The latest versions of Ubuntu and Mandriva just came out, I believe, and these distributions tend to have glitchy initial releases so it's best to stick with the previous version until the kinks get worked out.

So here are my questions: how do other people get a working Linux box without installing the OS twelve times?

By using the installer, which typically works the first time with no problems. Seriously.

When I first started using Linux, I didn't feel like learning how to make hardware work, so I just tried different distributions until I found one which worked out-of-box. At the time, that was Knoppix. Nowadays, Ubuntu seems to be the most popular choice. I wouldn't go with Ubuntu Hardy Heron yet, though, but rather Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon.

My personal choice now is Debian 4.0 (the current Debian stable release), but it's a bit older so not all of the latest hardware works out-of-box.

How do people deal with the many types of peripherals? On the only machine that actually works, the camera, ethernet, 802.11, and the firewire are all dead.

It depends on the peripheral. For the most part, hardware works out-of-box. Which is more than you can say for Windows XP, where you typically get to have the fun of searching for and installing various drivers for everything. (This is particularly "fun" when the driver I need to install is the one for the network card.)

In general, if some hardware isn't working and I don't already know how to get it to work, I first search on the internet and Linux forums for how to do it, and if that's not enough I ask on a linux forum about it.

[i92guboj]

You need to change the way to think. Remember: this has nothing to do with how Windows does the things, so, any previous experience with the other OS will not help you here, and sometimes it can even misguide you.

Note also that most distros DO HAVE MANUALS for installation and such, that's the first thing you should be willing to look into. If you are not of the kind of user who can read a few pages, then I'd kindly advise you to move back to windows, and just "click Next"

In the past three weeks, I have installed Linux twelve times on several different machines, and I have *one* that works. I tried Ubuntu, Kororaa, Fedora, Feather, and Mandriva. I also tried BSD UNIX.

In linux, when there's a problem, we try to solve it. Not just reset and try another disk. Maybe your problem is related to your acpi controller or any other piece of your mother board, and that's what causing you problems with most linux distros at boot time. My suggestion: pick at most two distros, and open a new thread for each one if you have problems installing or booting them.

We can't magically solve your problem on installing or booting a linux distro. We need to go step-by-step. Also, if you are looking for hardware compatibility, I'd stay away from any BSD.

For all that work, I have a single Ubuntu that functions, although the boot loader is hosed. What am I missing?

Open a thread, describe your problem, post boot errors/messages. Be as accurate as possible, and let us know where exactly your machine is hanging (if that's what it's doing), else, describe WHAT exactly is happening, and why you can't boot, operate or whatever.

Several of the machines were elderly, but two are dual core rockets. About half laptops and desktops.

The age of the hardware, nowadays, rarely matters.

Since I have tried many many different combinations of hardware and software, I'm trying to understand how other people install Linux. Is this operating system just for computer experts? (Say what you will about Microsoft, I can get it to run first try on any suitable. I actually saw a woman running XP on 128Mb the other day.)

Nice. That demonstrates only that you know that OS and you don't have a clue about Linux. I didn't play very good the first day I took a guitar, either.

So here are my questions: how do other people get a working Linux box without installing the OS twelve times? How do people deal with the many types of peripherals? On the only machine that actually works, the camera, ethernet, 802.11, and the firewire are all dead.

Any newcomer can use it, as long as s/he's willing to learn a bit. It's the only requisite. I know it can be overwhelming and a bit frustrating when you start, but just try to concentrate on one problem at a time, and give all the info when asking, so people can help you better. You will find that the community is helpful and collaborative.

Welcome.

[tommykay]

>Maybe your problem is related to your acpi controller or any other piece of your mother board

Read carefully: I installed SIX different Linux distributions on SEVEN different computers in at least TWENTY different combinations, with a success rate of >5%. So it's not any one particular computer, or distro, or person.

>I didn't play very good the first day I took a guitar, either.

I was using UNIX *long* before Linus Torvalds whipped up Linux, and long before Windows, too. So don't talk down to me. Obviously this is an install issue, not a user issue.

Just to make it clear, I have attemped to install Linux on 5-6 occasions in the past ten years. Every time ends in frustration, and my requests for help are met with "I'm too cool to give you a straight answer". Since several of the distros have improved greatly since my last attempt, I was hoping I could report to my students that Linux was a viable alternative, but maybe that's too optimistic.

>Open a thread, describe your problem, post boot errors/messages.

As opposed to having software that runs correctly the first time? My success rate would have been 100% if I were installing DOS, MacOS, RSTS/E, NeXT, CP/M or any other OS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT WINDOZE! Why is it hard to understand that a user would want to put in the disk and get back a working computer?

On the other hand, if what you're saying is, a seasoned computer professional can't expect to install Linux on a roomful of computers without having most of them unusable, then just say so.

If my tone is hostile, I genuinely appologize. But I have wasted about thirty hours doing something that would have been done before lunch under any number of other operating systems, so my frustration should be understandable.

Any genuinely helpful suggestions?

Tom

[i92guboj]

>Maybe your problem is related to your acpi controller or any other piece of your mother board

Read carefully: I installed SIX different Linux distributions on SEVEN different computers in at least TWENTY different combinations, with a success rate of >5%. So it's not any one particular computer, or distro, or person.

I read. And I said "maybe your problem is related to your acpi controller or any other piece of your mother board". Problems with acpi controllers and install/livecds are really common, and easily solvable, I'm not saying it's your case, but it certainly is a possibility. Every linux has that potential problem with broken hardware because every linux distro uses *the same* linux kernel.

>I didn't play very good the first day I took a guitar, either.

I was using UNIX *long* before Linus Torvalds whipped up Linux, and long before Windows, too. So don't talk down to me. Obviously this is an install issue, not a user issue.

Assumptions are the mothers of all problems. Never assume anything. Also, I am not taking anyone down. To start with, I don't have a clue who you are, or what do you know.

Just to make it clear, I have attemped to install Linux on 5-6 occasions in the past ten years. Every time ends in frustration, and my requests for help are met with "I'm too cool to give you a straight answer". Since several of the distros have improved greatly since my last attempt, I was hoping I could report to my students that Linux was a viable alternative, but maybe that's too optimistic.

You have not given a detailed description of your problem. Without straight details and info, we can't provide direct answers either. An example of straight problem would be "grub reports error number 2". Your post has nothing similar, you just say that you can't install linux... No idea.

Lots of universities are using it without a single problem. And I studied with unix and linux at mine, amongst some other OSes. So, calm down, and admit that there's a chance that you or your hardware (or a combination of both), can have something to do (slight chance, just that) on the problem.

>Open a thread, describe your problem, post boot errors/messages.

As opposed to having software that runs correctly the first time? My success rate would have been 100% if I were installing DOS, MacOS, RSTS/E, NeXT, CP/M or any other OS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT WINDOZE! Why is it hard to understand that a user would want to put in the disk and get back a working computer?

Are you here to solve anything or to tell use how bad linux is? Because if it's the later, then we all know. Thanks. Use another OS if this doesn't fit you.

On the other hand, if what you're saying is, a seasoned computer professional can't expect to install Linux on a roomful of computers without having most of them unusable, then just say so.

Mmmm, no idea what do you mean.

If my tone is hostile, I genuinely appologize. But I have wasted about thirty hours doing something that would have been done before lunch under any number of other operating systems, so my frustration should be understandable.

A bit. But in an internet forum, I never take things personally. But, even then, you should try to leave passions out if you are seeking technical support.

Any genuinely helpful suggestions?

Tom

Again, your first post is waaaay too vague. One problem at a time. Let's start with something understandable, so we can provide those straight answers that you need/want.

I know you are upset. But you as the professional you say you are, should also understand that we can't answer anything if you haven't even made a question. This like "the install breaks in the middle" or "the live does not boot" are providing us exactly zero info about your problem.

This works for lots of users, so, just in case, never assume that you can't do anything wrong, just because you have experience. Also, remember that, even being based on UNIX, or better, inspired by UNIX, linux *IS NOT* Unix.

We are not getting a single dollar for convincing you to use linux or whatever other OS. Just trying to help you. But we need you to help us a bit as well.

Now. Let's stop this futile conversation that leads nowhere, let's take some tea, a couple of beers or whatever suits you, and provide us with some info or errors, and a question, so we can answer it. You will find that we are not crystal-frozen androids nor anything like that, but persons that are willing to help. No one is paying us to answer here, and if we wanted to be famous, we would use our true name, not a nickname.

[IsaacKuo]

>Maybe your problem is related to your acpi controller or any other piece of your mother board

Read carefully: I installed SIX different Linux distributions on SEVEN different computers in at least TWENTY different combinations, with a success rate of >5%. So it's not any one particular computer, or distro, or person.

The above is an example of someone trying to diagnose your problem even though you provided no technical information whatsoever. He's making a guess at what might be your problem.

And what's your response? A rant which does nothing whatsoever to provide any more information or details that might help find out what your problem is.

Do you want help? Or do you want to rant some more?

Maybe your problem is a flakey CD burner, which has caused problems with all of your install CDs. Maybe your problem is flakey boot CD drives; I've noticed linux install CDs tend to be a bit finicky. Maybe it has something to do with the particular videocard chipsets you have, or something else your computers have in common, or a combination of things. But we can only guess unless you provide some details.

Your rant seems to be that installing Linux only has a 5% rate of success, therefore it sucks and you can't understand how anyone can ever use it. And yet, the actual rates of success are obviously much higher overall. Many people install, say, Ubuntu 7.10 on numerous computers with a 100% success rate.

Are you interested in finding out what's wrong, or do you just want to keep on ranting? Either way will work with me. (I won't be responding any further if you just want to rant, but if it makes you feel any better I'll be reading your rants anyway.)

Just to make it clear, I have attemped to install Linux on 5-6 occasions in the past ten years. Every time ends in frustration, and my requests for help are met with "I'm too cool to give you a straight answer".

Are you requesting help now? Here? Because if you want help, you need to provide some information about your problem. If you simply rant without providing any information, then how can you expect a more helpful answer?

As opposed to having software that runs correctly the first time? My success rate would have been 100% if I were installing DOS, MacOS, RSTS/E, NeXT, CP/M or any other OS.

No, it would not. That is simply a lie, and it's besides the point. Go ahead. Install CP/M or DOS or MacOS on your machines. How many of them work with 100% of your hardware, with a 100% success rate? That seems to be what you demand.

If my tone is hostile, I genuinely appologize. But I have wasted about thirty hours doing something that would have been done before lunch under any number of other operating systems, so my frustration should be understandable.

Any genuinely helpful suggestions?

It's not just that your tone is hostile, it's that you seem to actively resist any suggestions that might help solve your problems.

In particular, if you want some help in figuring out what the problem is, you could provide at least some minimal details about what hardware you're using. But instead of providing any details about even one of the computers in question, you just repeat your rant.

[Manchunian]

When I first installed Linux, I had never, ever installed any OS on any computer, ever. I had a rough idea of how to administer Windows, but my computing knowledge was very limited. Since then I have learned a lot, and I now try to help others who are new to this OS. Many of these have been succesful, including some I've helped at work who are even more computer illeterate than I was a few years ago. Linux is not just for experts, believe me, otherwise I'd never have succeeded in installing it the first time I tried, without the slightest problem. My success rate at installing Linux on a variety of machines? 100% - really. If you have trouble with five or six computers like you say you do, there must be something in common with them. Are they installed with the latest and greatest graphics card? If so, there's a good chance that Linux won't install. Why? Not because Linux is crap and Windows is great, but because the hardware manufacturers don't make their drivers for Linux and the Linux developers have to make make them themselves, sometimes in their free time, totally from scratch. Another possibility: are you using the same disk for the installs on all computers? You should know that when burning a Linux CD you need to use an unused CD and, perhaps most importantly, select a low burn speed. Perhaps these things are obvious, and perhaps you're going to have a go at me for "talking down to you", but many people, including the most experienced, can overlook the obvious.

[elija]

maybe YHBT?

[bigtomrodney]

maybe YHBT?

We sure have.

[IsaacKuo]

Yeah, he's just a troll. It doesn't hurt to assume otherwise, though, at least at first.