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Reisswolf - I don't see your reply as flamebait. I am a huge Linux supporter (I don't even run windows on my box, only suse and ubuntu). But honestly, I ...
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  1. #11
    Linux User George Harrison's Avatar
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    Reisswolf - I don't see your reply as flamebait.

    I am a huge Linux supporter (I don't even run windows on my box, only suse and ubuntu). But honestly, I want to make money when I get older. Writing Unix progs in C won't get me far other than "street cred".. maybe I'm wrong, can I still write programs in C that are windows compatible that I can sell to organizations for money? They would have to be windows compatible because, unfortunately, that is what everyone uses. I love Linux just as much as the next guy but I can also see the hard truth. Maybe I went a bit far, who knows. I don't agree with MS, but a lot of businesses use their OS. So am I correct that C is primarily for Unix applications? I might just buckle down and teach myself how to use Java. Although I have my doubts considering I had trouble with a Hello World C prog
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  2. #12
    Linux Newbie eerok's Avatar
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    Well, I've coded a lot of C and assembler, some C++ and php, and a bit of common lisp (can't stand lisp syntax, though).

    IMO you should start with a popular RAD language such as python. Here you'll learn all the important programming concepts including OOP.

    I don't think it's realistic to pick one language now on the basis of what you'll use to make a living later.

    Pick a language now that will help you learn programming. Once you know what you're doing, learning other languages is not a big deal.
    noobus in perpetuum

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Harrison
    Reisswolf - I don't see your reply as flamebait.

    I am a huge Linux supporter (I don't even run windows on my box, only suse and ubuntu). But honestly, I want to make money when I get older. Writing Unix progs in C won't get me far other than "street cred".. maybe I'm wrong, can I still write programs in C that are windows compatible that I can sell to organizations for money? They would have to be windows compatible because, unfortunately, that is what everyone uses. I love Linux just as much as the next guy but I can also see the hard truth. Maybe I went a bit far, who knows. I don't agree with MS, but a lot of businesses use their OS. So am I correct that C is primarily for Unix applications? I might just buckle down and teach myself how to use Java. Although I have my doubts considering I had trouble with a Hello World C prog
    You don't have to make non-free software to make money off software.

  4. #14
    Linux Newbie GNOME_n00b's Avatar
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    george harrison
    you may want to have a look through this thread:
    http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/topic-61127.html

    you are making more work for yourself by learning in C. if you are desperate to program in C, learn C++ instead because going from C++ to C is MUCH easier than the other way around.


    if you want to learn in the most popular(ie the most new projects being started in the language) language, then you should turn your attention to java instead. its also a lot easier and less messy than C, but performance suffers.

  5. #15
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    You can sell you apps to windows users if you program C. IIRC most of Windows itself was built using C. in addition, you can create programs which are portable with C; you create an app with for example C and GTK, then you compile it on different platforms or cross-compile it, and voila, different executables, different platforms and same program.

  6. #16
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    GNOME_n00b Posted:
    ...you are making more work for yourself by learning in C. if you are desperate to program in C, learn C++ instead because going from C++ to C is MUCH easier than the other way around. ...
    Take this quote at its face value: an opinion. Now here is my two cents :

    I've received training and have programmed in both C and C++ and have found for the newly minted student of computer programming that C++ is not worth its pitfalls. Between "complex" concepts such as operator overloading and inheritance is it almost a certainty that a beginner will write complicated and convoluted code that is not transparent or easily discoverable. I submit that learning C first is a more logical path to follow because it is a subset of C++. Once comfortable with the syntax, pointers, and complex function declarations, etc. learning the object oriented features of C++, a super set of C, will be self evident. Start small and scale up.

  7. #17
    Linux Newbie GNOME_n00b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davebardsley
    GNOME_n00b Posted:
    ...you are making more work for yourself by learning in C. if you are desperate to program in C, learn C++ instead because going from C++ to C is MUCH easier than the other way around. ...
    Take this quote at its face value: an opinion. Now here is my two cents :

    I've received training and have programmed in both C and C++ and have found for the newly minted student of computer programming that C++ is not worth its pitfalls. Between "complex" concepts such as operator overloading and inheritance is it almost a certainty that a beginner will write complicated and convoluted code that is not transparent or easily discoverable. I submit that learning C first is a more logical path to follow because it is a subset of C++. Once comfortable with the syntax, pointers, and complex function declarations, etc. learning the object oriented features of C++, a super set of C, will be self evident. Start small and scale up.
    i guess it depends upon where you are coming from. i learnt OO through java, not C++. i had a really hard time with C. looking back, i would definitely have started on C++ first rather than C. besides, C++ is so much easier for GUI programming, so i think that george harrison is inevitably going to have to learn OO. my way of reasoning is that its so much quicker to learn C++ straight off then it is to learn C first, then throwing in OO principles on top of that to confuse things.
    i would hate to have learned OO princliples from C++.

    Start small and scale up.
    thats why i think its best that he starts on something like python. i think that will be a gentle introduction for him. i would never recommend anyone to start on C.

  8. #18
    Linux Guru lakerdonald's Avatar
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    Calling C a subset of C++ is very misleading. While C++ may have more features than C, always keep in mind the fact that C predates C++ by many years.

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    In my advice I've chosen to accept GH's thread without assumption: help to learn C. C is small, and simple (although often criticized for complex declarations) and is a fine first language to learn that will serve you well iff (if and only if) the learning process is assisted with the correct aids and advice from colleagues. The same can be said about any language. It is my experience that C is easy to learn.

    Learning from the command line is a fine place to start, if possibly intimidating. If someone would feel comforted by a graphical, point-and-click application then by all means install and used the biggest, "best", C++ Integrated Development Environment (IDE) but I strongly advise that C be the taught/learnt first. Stated as fact earlier C is a subset of C++ and a C program will compile and run just fine by a C++ IDE.

    In C's simplicity lies its power and the names of the languages tell all: the increment operator in the name "C++" literally means "C incremented by one." In this alone there is much wisdom.

    Notwithstanding my previous opinions "The C Programming Language" by K&R is meant to help the reader learn how to program in C, and contains a tutorial introduction for new users. It is not an introduction to computer programming and assumes _some_ familiarity with variables, assignment statements, loops, and functions.

    C is a good first computer language to learn, and the same can be said about may others.

  10. #20
    Linux Guru anomie's Avatar
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    thats why i think its best that he starts on something like python. i think that will be a gentle introduction for him. i would never recommend anyone to start on C.
    I fully agree with this.

    That said, C is the real deal (or at least one of the real deals) for a lot of low-level, performance programming. And it seems to be very widely used in the OSS world, so it's important to learn.

    My own experience with C++ was not super pleasant. I took 16 credit hours of it in college. The first class was really painful, and by the end of all the instruction I had a genuine respect for anyone who has to work with and manage its complexity on a daily basis.

    After learning Python, you might go for either C or Java.

    But that's just my opinion.

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