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I was a System 38 operator and we got a new toy - a Vax. It was an Unix based machine which none of us really new anything about. In ...
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  1. #21
    Penguin of trust elija's Avatar
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    I was a System 38 operator and we got a new toy - a Vax. It was an Unix based machine which none of us really new anything about. In a surprisingly short time we began to have disk space issues and having a poke around found a huge file which I deleted and got a lot of space back. It did cause a spot of bother when we next rebooted. The file was called vmunix.

    At the time and for a long time afterwards I wondered why it would allow such a thing to happen but these days I get it. I actually understand and approve of the philosophy which Doug Gwyn expresses beautifully.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Gwyn
    UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.
    "I used to be with it, then they changed what it was.
    Now what was it isn't it, and what is it is weird and scary to me.
    It'll happen to you too."

    Grandpa Simpson



    The Fifth Continent

  2. #22
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    user-f11 said:
    When you delete the spell checker, you expect to delete only the spell checker (as you have installed it), rather than deleting all the Office Packages + Nautilus + the whole graphical desktop + half of the OS
    This is a problem, but as Rubberlegs mentioned, there is a list which yum provides before you follow through with the removal. If you have not removed essential system files, the situation can be salvaged by using yum. First check its history:
    Code:
    yum history
    and ascertain the number of the removal transaction you want to reverse. Then check that is the correct transaction:
    Code:
    yum history info <the selected number>
    and if it's the correct number, undo the transaction:
    Code:
    yum history undo <the correct number>
    This isn't "flaw resistance" as you put it, but it is helpful in the case you mention.

  3. #23
    Linux Newbie user-f11's Avatar
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    RE: If you have not removed essential system files
    ... and disabled essential system services, upon which the system becomes damaged beyond recovery.
    This is the point. Which are these essential system packages and system services, the deletion of which or disabling respectively will bring the system to a state of beyond recorvery. How can an observer distinguish between system and non-system packages.

    RE: the deletion of gcc
    gcc is not critically fatal to the system. It is fatal to the package installer (to compile from source), but one can restore the system on the grounds of rpm packages, for example.

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  5. #24
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    user-f11 asked:
    How can an observer distinguish between system and non-system packages.
    This is an important question in the context of the original problem to which I have no definitive answer. I guess it depends on experience, such as has been described in earlier posts. You try and learn carefully and when you make a mistake, you try and learn from it. One mistake I made was confuse English syntax with program usage syntax. I used the command: rm. I wanted to remove all the files from a directory in my home directory called 'sundry' so, whilst in my home directory I did: rm * sundry. It looked like it said "remove (rm) everything (*) from sundry (sundry)." Unfortunately for me at the time it took out all the files from my home directory, and told me that it couldn't remove sundry because it was a directory. The command should have been: rm sundry/*. With backup I recovered, but it smartened me up.

    As you mention, gcc is not a critical program for the system to run, unlike glibc discussed above. If you try and create your own bootdisks, that is, CDs that will boot a linux system, you will find that such systems don't actually need very much to boot and run. When I was creating these disks all I needed was a kernel and a root filesystem that had a version of glibc installed in a linux filesystem which included the directories /etc /bin /dev /lib /proc and /tmp I think. You just need a few tools to manipulate files for which a progam called busybox was good (it's a single program that has lots of dressed down versions of cp, rm, mount etc) and a bootloader like syslinux. There's a bootdisk HOWTO if you want to get into it. My point, I suppose is that it was by experience that I learnt what is essential to a linux system, which is possibly not the answer to your question that an inexperienced user might want to hear.

  6. #25
    Linux Newbie user-f11's Avatar
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    RE: ... in the context of the original problem
    The idea was for the OS to have somewhere expert knowledge about the minimum set of services, for example, for it to operate properly.
    Some list: rsyslog, messagebus ... udev-post
    and in the very moment in which the user tries to disable udev-post for example, a message to be issued:
    ***** Fatal Settings Error ***** Disabling this service will leave the kernel without devices upon boot & the OS will be damaged? Do you know how to run udev from the grub?

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