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Originally Posted by rolyn i agree with New_To_RH_Linux its a nightmare installing stuff on linux i can see how it ca become "too" easy i am a complete n00b but ...
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  1. #11
    tfk
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyn
    i agree with New_To_RH_Linux its a nightmare installing stuff on linux
    i can see how it ca become "too" easy i am a complete n00b but i am trying to get to know a little about linux but i dont know where to go to learn.
    It indeed takes some time and effort to learn it, for example the installing stuff. A good place to learn is the Linux Documentation Project. And the plentiful of manpages, infopages, etc...
    If you need help on a program, there's nearly always a manpage for it available:
    Code:
    man program-name
    Code:
    info program-name
    A good book about Linux always comes in handy, too.

    ...and you won't stay a newbie for long. ;)



    Quote Originally Posted by seanb
    For example i just downloaded some updates and new packages, where did they go?
    That's a matter of browser configuration. It's a principle to configure everything before using it. (Home directory as default?)

    Quote Originally Posted by seanb
    My biggest beef is why not have some better installation tools? they dont have to be graphical, text would be fine but you get nothing.
    Many distributions use rpm, a very comfy package tool for the command line. Download a rpm package, install it with rpm - And it's done. Most programs are distributed in source code form (as opposed to most rpms, they mostly ship precompiled binaries) , and have to be compiled at the shell. That is necessary to adjust the program to your Linux installation before it gets compiled. Many distros have some differences, and providing bins for every possible distro or to assimilate every distro is both not a good idea.

    Of course probs can get frustrating. The best solution to nearly every problem is to search and read documentation (HOWTOs, tutorials, manpages, infopages, FAQs, guides, etc.) and to alter the installed software (and config files) until it works.

    --LC

    PS: I'm no elitist or something like that - I didn't mean in my previous post that easy-to-use distributions should be removed, they are not senseless IMO. I just don't like them.
    it\'s !Linux; it\'s GNU/Linux!
    [XBill] [GNU] [Viewable with Any Browser] [Drop me a mail]

  2. #12
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    The problem for me (i have a couple of good Linux and Fedora books) is that the information is meaningless to me. How do you compile something? i found some of the doemloads, i can open up a shell or terminal (i dont even know the difference) now what? i am not trying to be a smart ass but i dont have anything to tie the bits of info together.

    For a living i repair MerCruiser boat engines and sterndrives, with some of the newer models be rather sophisticated in terms of computer controls. Now i have tons of service manuals with all the info you would ever need to do repair work. BUT if you dont know what your looking at, they are useless. Thats where i am at right now. doing alot of reading and i have learned quite a bit. it does seem to me, however that when i do figure something out i get even more frustrated. what i mean by that is-some very simple functions are rather difficult to figure out, so i say to myself -"why the big freaking secret?" some of the applications and tools are not very well thought out, not very intuitive in fact some things are downright counter-intuitive.

    well thats enough of my rant, i am going to go back to reading, thanks for the help that i have received and i will have plenty more questions

  3. #13
    tfk
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanb
    How do you compile something?
    Here is a very detailed tutorial on that.

    The core utilities of Linux, and many other programs used with Linux, are GNU utilities. They are designed in the Unix way of programming: They do their job, but instead of focusing on the user interface, they focus on that they do their _one_ job in an excellent way. The Unix way of programming opposes the Windows way of programming; The Windows way is to design a good and intuitive user interface, but less powerful programs trying to do _many_ jobs at once. These are two completely different programming philosophies.

    (Most GNU user interfaces aren't that bad, BTW. If you have some problem with a console program, calling it with --help in the command line gives a short help screen, displaying the possible parameters and their meanings.)

    Sometimes, programs can be very very very counterintuitive. For example, the stream editor sed. You can edit files with it in an automated way, amongst other things. Using it requires learning a sometimes quite cryptic syntax, but it is an extremely powerful and useful piece of software! An easier interface could really make it uncomfortable and lengthy to handle.

    The terminal/shell thing - Terminals are programs which display the output generated by the programs which run 'in it'. Most programs have some output and input, and the terminal displays the output and receives the input from the keyboard.
    The shell is the program which takes the commands from you, checks the syntax, starts programs, etc. It's output and input can be linked to a terminal, to a serial port, and many other places.
    So, when you start a terminal, it automatically starts a shell and displays it. But it could start and display every other program, too.

    The longer you use Linux, the lesser it will frustrate you.

    cu
    --LC
    it\'s !Linux; it\'s GNU/Linux!
    [XBill] [GNU] [Viewable with Any Browser] [Drop me a mail]

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC
    Quote Originally Posted by seanb
    How do you compile something?
    Here is a very detailed tutorial on that.

    The core utilities of Linux, and many other programs used with Linux, are GNU utilities. They are designed in the Unix way of programming: They do their job, but instead of focusing on the user interface, they focus on that they do their _one_ job in an excellent way. The Unix way of programming opposes the Windows way of programming; The Windows way is to design a good and intuitive user interface, but less powerful programs trying to do _many_ jobs at once. These are two completely different programming philosophies.

    (Most GNU user interfaces aren't that bad, BTW. If you have some problem with a console program, calling it with --help in the command line gives a short help screen, displaying the possible parameters and their meanings.)

    Sometimes, programs can be very very very counterintuitive. For example, the stream editor sed. You can edit files with it in an automated way, amongst other things. Using it requires learning a sometimes quite cryptic syntax, but it is an extremely powerful and useful piece of software! An easier interface could really make it uncomfortable and lengthy to handle.

    The terminal/shell thing - Terminals are programs which display the output generated by the programs which run 'in it'. Most programs have some output and input, and the terminal displays the output and receives the input from the keyboard.
    The shell is the program which takes the commands from you, checks the syntax, starts programs, etc. It's output and input can be linked to a terminal, to a serial port, and many other places.
    So, when you start a terminal, it automatically starts a shell and displays it. But it could start and display every other program, too.

    The longer you use Linux, the lesser it will frustrate you.

    cu
    --LC
    Tank you for the tutorial link to "compiling" that is the kind of stuff i am looking for and i will reread it in depth later. for the most part every other tutorial i have come by makes the assumption that you know what they are talking about
    it reminds me of being in school as a kid and in your math book you get problems like: 2x - 10= 20 solve for x, but then yo get to the test and have problems like: 2x( well i was going to throw in a bunch of exponents and fractions but i cant do it with this keyboard--you know what i mean though

    well thanks again, but i have to get back to beating my head against the wall with this router- i can not connect with it -yes, the firewall is disabled

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    " My Linux boots into the login in about 10 to 13 seconds, and shuts down equally fast,"

    mine takes a minute and 15 seconds to just get to the login screen and another 20 seconds from there.

    Pentium 4 2.8ghz Hyprer threading Processor
    512 ram

    XP can fully boot in the same time Fedora takes to go from login screen to desktop.

  6. #16
    tfk
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    The loading time between the login and the ready desktop depends heavily on your window manager and desktop environment. By default, FC3 uses Metacity with Gnome. From what I have experienced, they are extremely slow at loading. Using Xfce instead is a good idea. (You can change that via 'session' in the FC3 login screen.)

    There are some ways to speed things up. For example, disable the bootsplash screen. You won't get a progress bar anymore at the startup, instead of this the booting messages are printed directly onto the screen. It's no real eye-candy anymore them, but faster.
    To disable it, open the file /boot/grub/grub.conf in an editor and remove the string 'rhgb' from the kernel parameters.

    You can also disable SELinux if you don't need it, this saves a second or two.

    To speed up the booting process, disable all unnecessary daemons (or 'services', as red hat calls them) with the program system-config-services - For example, the gpm daemon (mouse support in a native console) and httpd (web server). Scroll through the list and deactivate some of them. ...If you don't use bluetooth and find a bluetooth daemon, just deactivate it. Or the nfsd, if you don't use the network file system.

    --LC
    it\'s !Linux; it\'s GNU/Linux!
    [XBill] [GNU] [Viewable with Any Browser] [Drop me a mail]

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